2014 Ukrainian Maidan Revolt: News, Views, Photos & Videos

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Air Force Brat

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NATO may have some nice hardware in place, but its all for show, and the numbers deployed reflect that. If one was seriously considering military action, against Russia of all opponents, one does not deploy fighters in signal digit units.

For one, attacking Russian military forces directly is simply a none-starter as to start down that road would near species suicide as the chances it escalating into all out nuclear war is far too great.

Secondly, Russia is not Yugoslavia or Iraq, the Russian bear has claws and teeth and can not only defend itself pretty well, it will strike back savagely if attacked.

Using those neighbouring NATO countries to launch attacks against Russian forces is to guarantee those bases will be targeted in turn, and if the Russians can't take out those aircraft and bases via its own air power and missile strikes, it could revert back to its Cold War go to option and launch ground offensives.

Once again that is a recipe for spiralling escalations that could lead to the human race loosing.

That's why that force is being moved there Wolfie, its neighborhood watch, it will meet further Russian aggression with Blunt Force, those Russian forces that go out to meet them had better be their best, or they will suffer a similar fate to the building invaders. No one is amused at Putin's gamesmanship, and yes he is playing his favorite role well, but now the dynamic has changed, Russia is the aggressor here, I know that, you know that, and Russia knows that. No, the free world is not going to face WW III, Vlad has taken a calculated risk to gain a prize, and he has won the Cherry while the rest of the free world rung their hands trying to decide what to do. They have decided to say "NO", nothing more, nothing less. Yes the handringers are still ringing their hands, but not in public, they finally realized that in-action was inviting more action by the Russians???? amazing huh????
 

SampanViking

The Capitalist
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Sources? RT? Kharkiv people sent from Kharkiv via Kiev to Odessa... Kharkiv is closer to Slavyansk than Kiev (or any other 'pro-Russian' city) to Odessa (let alone Kharkiv...). And you belive in such stories?

I advice you to study maps before posting.

Sources Itar Tass, RT, Xinhua, BBC and Reuters

I was also going to advise you to learn to read before giving the smart mouth.
On reflection though, I think I have read enough to know that I have had enough of somebody as utterly vile as you
I warned you earlier to mind your behaviour but you seem to value trolling over your membership here, so I am ending it for you.
YOu are banned permenantly.
 
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TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
Wolf, please I am simply pointing out that first to fight is not first to finish.
The critical factor is resolve. It's not because of some "unwritten Great powers rule" it's because the Resolve just wasn't there.
In Korea there was a push to go nuclear, and not a bluff alove of the critical players in that conflict had the Resolve to go all the way. Had some people gotten there way Beijing would be irradiated crater. The only factor that pulled them back was that the ones who really mattered lacked the will to want total and complete scorched earth.

He Who has the will to hold out a conventional campaign Can launch one. Bush did, Kennedy did Johnson did. Khrushchev did not at least not for Cuba.

Obama I know doesn't. his first step is to cut and run. His second step is to pass the buck. This third is Drone strike. He like Clinton before him is a Cruise missile president. Most of Europe I feel also lacks the killer resolve.
They will posture but unless Russian Tanks actually start hitting the Balkans They will play it low key and supply aid.

Putin, Is another matter his kills were up close and personal. His mindset is built form a life time serving in the KGB. He as a young man walked up to a KGB office and asked to Join. He was willing as a boy of his early teens to walk into a nest of Vipers and Ask for a Job. he was turned away, as the KGB picked who joined it not the other way around. but he was given a list of thing to do if he wanted in. He followed through on that list. Putin is a man Driven and sworn he is in his heart convicted to restore the Russian Empire if not the USSR. He can start a War and would push it as far as he can, He knows though there are limitations on Russian Military power. He knows those limits. He won't take the Whole of the Ukraine but he can carve off "Nuvo-Russia"

His is not the whole cake but parts of it. He is set to start taking back piece by piece the sweetest parts of the Russian empire but he won't take the most trouble some parts. Look at Georgia he took the parts that wanted the Russian flag not the parts that did not. In Azerbaijan he's working to woo them all around the reigion where there is the possibility of a open welcome he is laying on the pickup lines. where he knows it's not there he is aggressive. The Kiev goverment is still unstable. the New president is not working as hoped and the movement in the East is not simply as Obama and Kerry hopes the Result of Russian troops egging on the Streets. its a reaction a reaction to a lack of Resolve in him, it's a lack of Resolve in Europe and a lack of leadership in Kiev.
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
That's why that force is being moved there Wolfie, its neighborhood watch, it will meet further Russian aggression with Blunt Force, those Russian forces that go out to meet them had better be their best, or they will suffer a similar fate to the building invaders. No one is amused at Putin's gamesmanship, and yes he is playing his favorite role well, but now the dynamic has changed, Russia is the aggressor here, I know that, you know that, and Russia knows that. No, the free world is not going to face WW III, Vlad has taken a calculated risk to gain a prize, and he has won the Cherry while the rest of the free world rung their hands trying to decide what to do. They have decided to say "NO", nothing more, nothing less. Yes the handringers are still ringing their hands, but not in public, they finally realized that in-action was inviting more action by the Russians???? amazing huh????

You don't poke the bear and expect to come out unskaved.

I seldomly see eye-to-eye with the Obama administration when it comes to foreign policy, but in this instance, inaction is really the only viable choice for the west.

You call the Russians aggressors, yet one can argue what the Russians did and are doing is little different to the role the west played in toppling the original, democratically elected Ukranian government through mob violence and great loss of life on both sides(the west really has built up quite a reputation for doing this sort of thing over the years). The west didn't half egg on and lend support to the Madien thugs, even bragging about how it spent $5bn promoting 'democracy' in Ukraine in recent years.

Compared to what happened in Kiev, the Russian countermove have been far far less bloody and ugly to be honest, until the same thugs from Madien moved in recently, that is.

The mistake the west made was first to make a bold play against a vital Russian interest when everyone knows the west's bottom line, which is that no western country is willing to pay the price in blood or treasure to directly fight in Ukraine against the locals, never mind the Russians. Secondly, the west erred horribly by getting into bed with some extremely nasty people in order to achieve its goals, and the blood and violence those thugs unleashed has shocked and dismayed anyone who has seen more than the sanitised and white washed drivel mainstream western media has been peddling.

The Ukrainans themselves saw that as clear as day, which is why so many if them are resisting the new order established by those thugs.

Those people burning and bleeding in those images are clearly not Russian green men, but locals. If those right sector thugs carry on as they have, they risk starting a racial war. And those have a habit to turning real nasty, real fast.
 

Engineer

Major
Ukraine is of such strategic importance to the point that it can affect the survival of Russia. This is why the West is so relentless at seizing Ukraine. The actual mistake from West is they really believe they could get away with anything, due to the lack of challenge for so long. Even now, the West still think it can win. The idea that Russia will be willing to do anything for her own survival doesn't seem to be taken seriously.

Some here think that placing more numerous and more advanced weaponry in close proximity to Russia would somehow deter Russia. Such tactic is just the same mistake outlined above, and will only be met with more brute force by Russia. There is also the Russian mentality to take into account, and that is: if Russia is about to become the loser, no one would become the winner.
 
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I just woke up, many things happened in Ukraine this night, can you please post some credible link with a summary (I know about Odessa, but there was an assault on Kramators, and activists in Slavyansk are willing to negotiate (?) -- I couldn't find this in all source, though).
And I see in this thread Rutim was KIA heheh
 

SampanViking

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The key to understanding Odessa yesterday is the speech by Turchynov a few days ago about his being helpless in the East

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The key passage was

Mr Turchynov added: "Our task is to stop the spread of the terrorist threat first of all in the Kharkiv and Odessa regions."

There were specific comments about using the new National Guard (i.e. Right Sector) to do this, but these have either been edited out or are from another link I do not have to hand.

After reading a variety of sources, I think the following is a fair description of events

The Pro Russian factions were holding a rally in a square close to the Trade Union House they had previously occupied. The rally mainly composed of locals, was being addressed by Pro-Federalists from the East, which is where the claims of outsiders is coming from.

The rally was deliberately targeted and attacked by a March comprising local Pro Maidan supporters, but also bolstered by Football Hooligans from Kharkov and Right Sector Activists sent from Kiev. This sparked running battles around the square all afternoon, but the Pro-Federalists being outnumbered and (it seems) outgunned, retreated to Trade Union House and barricaded themselves in. The Right Sector led mob then torched it with predictably fatal consequences.

The key elements here, are that the very organisation, did the very thing in the very place, that Acting Coup President Turchynov had called for only a few days earlier.

This combined with the ongoing events around Slavyansk will inevitably mean that large parts of the Russian speaking population in Ukraine, who had been neutral or otherwise undecided will now come off the fence and join the the activists.
 

LesAdieux

Junior Member
the west need someone who dares to mess with putin, the maidan guys are their choice. but like the saying: a sword got double edges, it may cut both ways. the maidan guys are capable of committing atrocities, and hard to control. rember the sniper incident, they can even shoot their own guys.
 
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After reading a variety of sources, I think the following is a fair description of events

...

SampanViking, you're pretty fast (considering you've said you don't know the Russian language, which almost certainly means you don't know the Ukrainian either) but I'm not going to comment on your account; instead, let me ask you if, in your opinion, this tragedy could've been prevented on tactical level, I mean if Policemen (and it seems to me there were plenty of them, equipped:
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) could've stopped those events, and if Firefighters (on several videos I just had watched, I saw several fire tanks) could've achieved more, thank you!

P.S. A moment ago "Antimajdan-Odessa" announced they would come back, building "the tent city" etc., after the official Mourning is over (in case you care:
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mr.bean

Junior Member
the west need someone who dares to mess with putin, the maidan guys are their choice. but like the saying: a sword got double edges, it may cut both ways. the maidan guys are capable of committing atrocities, and hard to control. rember the sniper incident, they can even shoot their own guys.

its not just a matter of "messing'' with putin. whether one agrees with Russia's position or not it's so obvious that putin is running rings around Obama and he's a heavyweight in playing geostrategic games. he's become the nightmare for Obama's administration. watching events fold in the Ukraine shows how shockingly good putin is and how amateurish the americans look. and btw after Obama's anti china asia roadshow which was just concluded, we can anticipate the Russia's coming visit to china on may 20th. everyone is eager to know if the Russia-china mega gas deal will be signed or not. if they do sign this mega gas deal it would make the biggest mockery of Obama's 2nd round of sanctions.
 
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