J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread IV (Closed to posting)

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kyanges

Junior Member
If you look at the above pictures of the 2011 and 2001, the ventral tail fins of the 2011 is now entirely blocking the engine nozzles, unlike nozzles of the 2001 which are partially seen. I remember commenting about the fins serving the purpose of blocking the nozzles and improving stealth. Now it seems the blocking is even more complete.

The nozzles are still only blocked when they're constricting, which is no different from #2001/02.

EDIT: So far as I can tell anyway.

EDIT2 : After looking at some more pictures, it's like the bottom of the nozzles are blocked in more positions thanks to the ventral fins being moved back a bit, but from the side, the tops still peek out a bit.
 
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Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
I think adding those plates, with thrust vectoring force the plane to be heavier. Would it increase maneuverability? Not certain that it has too many advantages to a delta-canard. Most importantly, I think those plates decrease thrust, by about 15% as they are constricting a round engine outlet to a small, rectangular exit. Not sure that's totally right but that's as far as I know. In any case, those plates must have some serious draw-backs as they are not too difficult to make but every stealth fighter designed after the F-22 has decided to forgo them in favor of round nozzles.

Gentlemen, the Chinese have not embraced thrust vectoring technology, although Dr. Songs paper does mention OVT, he incorporated the "distant coupled canard" to address pitch authority at higher angles of attack, this is in addition to elevons, flaperons, and ruddervators, which the J-20 also incorporates for pitch control, so there is an abundance of pitch authority. Were they interested they could have purchased engines with OVT from the Russians. There is an F-22 thread, it is very capable, and super-maneuverable as its designers intended, it will be very difficult for "any" current or envisioned aircraft to exceed the agility of the F-22.....but that is off topic. brat
 

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
We are getting more and more really good pics of the J-20. I am looking forward to the day when we get some really good, high-res pics of the J-20 in the air from wingmen or chase aircraft like these of the F-22.

Me too, actually. I need an excuse to change my avatar.
 

Quickie

Colonel
The nozzles are still only blocked when they're constricting, which is no different from #2001/02.

EDIT: So far as I can tell anyway.

EDIT2 : After looking at some more pictures, it's like the bottom of the nozzles are blocked in more positions thanks to the ventral fins being moved back a bit, but from the side, the tops still peek out a bit.

In the above picture the 2001 nozzles are constricting also. It's still to be seen but it looks like the 2011 nozzles are still entirely blocked when not constricted and viewed from the same perpendicular angle.
 

Verum

Junior Member
The reinforcement arch in J-20 canopy is probably composite similar to the one in F-35, not metal. 2. F-22 is not the only plane in service without one. F-16 also has none. 3. The issue is not how hard it is to make a canopy without a support arch. It is how much thinner and thus lighter you can make the canopy if you gave it a support arch.

If J-20 is intended to use a distributed aperature electro-optical system similar to those on the F-35, then pilot visibility out of cockpit canopy becomes less important as the pilot would rely mainly on images taken by cameras around the plane and projected into the pilot's visor. So in this case it is well worthwhile to sacrafice a little canopy visibility to make the canopy much stronger and yet lighter by adding a reinforcement arch like those in the 2011 and F-35.

Despite the howl of protest that would certainly come from some poeple on this forum, the weight, cost, and developmental problems of the thrust vectoring nozzle on the F-22 is now regarded as not really worthwhile because it contributes little to how the USAF now envision a supercruising stealth fighter would be used. So I am not sure there is really enough ground to add thrust deflectors to the J-20 even if it is easy to do.

Good points, but just to correct one thing, F16 does have reinforcement, it's just in the back.
 

chuck731

Banned Idiot
Good points, but just to correct one thing, F16 does have reinforcement, it's just in the back.

Yes, but that is not comparable to the supports on the F-35 and J-20. Supporting the canopy in the back helps a little bit, but where the canopy needs the most support is up front, where bird strike resistance requirements demand the canopy being the strongest. Here the F-16 canopy is freestanding.
 

nkvd

New Member
The second one is the thrust vectoring plates. For a such high caliber plane like J20, adding two thrust vectoring plates shouldn't be that hard. After all, it's just two titanium/tungsten based metal plates with another million lines of software codes. It doesn't just add maneuverability but also increase stealth. Even if it's not thrust vectored. at least adding the plates would improve stealth and concentrate the exhaust to increase thrust
Sorry i might be Putting words in your mouth but it sounds as if you are asking for square nozzles(they don`t increase thrust) for IR suppression and people haven`t understood you.
 

xiabonan

Junior Member
I don't know where to post this so I'll just post it here first...Moderators please move it to threads related..

This is an online course on some basic vehicle aerodynamics by MIT, so if you're interested maybe you can register for it.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
 

Munir

Banned Idiot
12974340804_8f5870334f_o.jpg


So here is the IFR... Nice.
 
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