East China Sea Air Defense ID Zone

[Blackstone]

Like I have said, one can't violate something that is not there. Violating China's ADIZ only serves to proof its existence as very real, despite what US and Japan governments are claiming.

Careful not to lump US and Japan together. It's true US gave administrative rights to Japan, and you could/could not argue validity of the act, but our government never denied there were territorial disputes over Diaoyu islands. China's new ADIZ is now a reality. Full stop.

 

[Blitzo]

ADIZ or no AIDZ, PLAAF will still not enter within 10miles of Senkaku since that would be considered as intrusion of Japan's territorial air space (from Japan's perspective) in which Japan has the right to deny and defend.

Well let's see what they do if china sends planes in.

Will they really be willin to start a war to hold up their "undisputed sovereignty"?

 

[Air Force Brat]

is this specialist suggesting that PLAAF would shot down civilian planes? Whoa.

The ADIZ rules dont even aply to international civilian flights AFAIK but i could be wrong.

It certainly does seem that is what she is suggesting, and I would caution all involved that civilian and military air traffic where perfectly safe before this very controversial ADIZ was imposed. From the posts we have seen so far, we all believe that China imposed this ADIZ to strengthen her claim on the Dioayu, and yes I have read every post in an attempt to understand the full length and breadth of this issue. If China starts arbritrarily diverting civilian air traffic, someone will get hurt, and there will be repercussions. Kinda like the Hatfields and the McCoys, this ain't no good for anybody, but it will make some people "feel" threatened. It will also put lots of airplanes in close proximity to one another, and further ratchet up tensions in the region, just as it has ratcheted up tension here on the forum. The only thing certain is that all of our opinions seem to be according to where we call home and our own national interests, so in fact some of you are quite pleased, but please realize that those of us who are not pleased come by our opinions just as honestly as you do by yours, I do hope and pray for peace, especially at this Christmas season, not only for my own children and grandchildren, but for yours as well. brat

 

[LesAdieux]

Well let's see what they do if china sends planes in.

Will they really be willin to start a war to hold up their "undisputed sovereignty"?

well, I guess the Diaoyu, sorry, the Senkaku now is an "enclave" within the ADIZ to the jps, it is beyond the reach of the JSDF, we'll see how the jps defend it.

 

[Hendrik_2000]

Hendrik, just ignore Kroko's flame baits. He is just working out his pent up frustration because of how rarely he gets to say that China did something wrong and not being utterly wrong.

That is quite obvious from his excessive repetition of saying how China was wrong here or bungled there, and his deliberate attempt to spin the story and twist the facts to suit his own aims is plain for all to see.

Even the blatantly biased western media stressed that China was deliberately vague of what it meant by 'emergency defensive measures', nor has China ever stated that it will intercept each and every intrusion into its ADIZ. The ADIZ is China reserving the right to scramble fighters to investigate undeclared aero contacts that refuse to ID themselves. It is not a promise that China will intercept each and every breach of its ADIZ, especially if foreign aircraft just dipped their toe in and pull out straight away.

I agree with Kroko that China should at least have got those B52s on the radio, but to go and suggest some 'technical inexperience' is pure fanciful nonsense and is merely him projecting his own prejudices and bias rather than any remotely rational analysis of the facts.

Granted China was caught flat footed on the first day of ADIZ implementation. There are many reason why this could happened. Communication breakdown. Unclear and conflicting instruction, Operating procedure on how to handle challenged is not available. Caught napping on the speed of challenge.

Many thing can happened and please don't tell me this should not happened. Snafu and breakdown happened all the times even under the best circumstances. Just have a look at the roll out of Obamacare. I mean US is where all the computer programming started with illustrious company like Microsoft and Google, Yet snafu happened all the time

But as I said this is just the start and China is in for the long haul. I deal with Kroko for a long time and as you said he just post his own bias and prejudice and taunting China all the time with no proof other than his own bias

 

[xiabonan]

Airlines Urged by U.S. to Give Notice to China

WASHINGTON — On the same day that China scrambled fighter jets to enforce its newly declared air defense zone, the Obama administration decided to advise American commercial airlines to comply with China’s demands to be notified in advance of flights through the area.

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[siegecrossbow]

Airlines Urged by U.S. to Give Notice to China

WASHINGTON — On the same day that China scrambled fighter jets to enforce its newly declared air defense zone, the Obama administration decided to advise American commercial airlines to comply with China’s demands to be notified in advance of flights through the area.

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This is a very shrewd political maneuver. I think that Washington is trying to convey the extent of its involvement in the matter here. Either way it is a more responsible move than Japan trying to force the Airlines to ignore the ADIZ warnings (though, admittedly, they have more at stake here). At the very least it shows that the U.S. still cares about the safety of its citizens.

 

[xiabonan]

By the way, the original title of that article is "US advises Commercial Jets to Honour China's rule".

For some reason they changed it.

 

[SamuraiBlue]

It is 10 nm, not 10 miles, and China coast guard vessels have entered into that region on multiple occasions already. There was little Japan could do about it.

I believe it was PRC coast guard surveillance plane and not a PLAAF war plane and it met a Japanese jet fighter in which was escorted out of the territorial air space.
PLAAF to this day has NOT sent a fighter into Japanese claimed territorial air space around Senkaku isles.

China doesn't recognize Diaoyu islands as Japanese territory, so it has no right to deny China from patrolling her own territory.

That is from PRC perspective but Japan administers the island and Japan considers it as undisputed Japanese territory so to the Japanese we have all the right to deny PRC intrusion within that area.

 

[Blitzo]

I believe it was PRC coast guard surveillance plane and not a PLAAF war plane and it met a Japanese jet fighter in which was escorted out of the territorial air space.
PLAAF to this day has NOT sent a fighter into Japanese claimed territorial air space around Senkaku isles.

Yes. But when China does send in fighter jets around the islands, Japan will be able to do as much about that as their coast guard ships can do for chinese coast guard and CMS ships in the area.

That is from PRC perspective but Japan administers the island and Japan considers it as undisputed Japanese territory so to the Japanese we have all the right to deny PRC intrusion within that area.

Great. And from the Chinese perspective the islands are disputed and China also has a right to operate in and over the islands.
If Japan wants to hold its line that the islands are undisputed Japanese territory then they will have to shoot PLAAF jets that enter the airspace. If they do not, then they're effectively forfeiting their undisputed sovereignty, which was China's aim.