East China Sea Air Defense ID Zone

[Brumby]

Now that china declare the air around diaoyutai island as ADIZ she has the legal right to be in the air around the island

The word "legal" is highly questionable in my view and being used too loosely that suggest it carries with it inherent rights that are recognised by other nations. This recent move is no more than a unilateral imposition of a zone backed up by military muscle. Like a lot of things in life, the one that carries a big stick can make rules but that doesn't mean it is legal.

The zone is there and has been implemented - that is a fact. The question I have is should a disaster eventuates on a civilian airline, what is the international legal framework in which the disaster will be adjudicated?

 

[Hendrik_2000]

Really? in the case of the B-52, they didnt even comunicate via radio. Only later the chinese MoD informed that they had "monitored" the flight. And thats it. And what consequences are that you are mentioning? economic ones? military ones? the chinese government hasnt said anything about this. Do you speak for the chinese government?

Face the reality. Clearly, China blundered this time. Even people in china say it. I think that by now even PLA knows it.

Now what the Japanese air force did when Chinese fighter enter their common ADIZ nothing really
No that is the norm we will see when we cross the threshold. ADIZ is NOT Territorial air space genius

Here it is

BEIJING - China's Air Force scrambled jets on Friday and identified two American surveillance planes, and 10 Japanese aircraft, over the new air defense zone established by China over disputed islands in the East China Sea, the Chinese state news media said.

The scrambling of the jets was the first move announced by China that it was enforcing the air defense zone, which it established last weekend. China said at the time that foreign planes flying into the zone would be subject to military action if they did not present prior notification.

The American planes identified by the Chinese jets on Friday were a P-3 and an EP-3, said Col. Shen Jinke, a spokesman for China’s Air Force, according to Xinhua, the state-run news agency.

The Chinese account said the 10 Japanese aircraft were of three types of military models. It named the E-767, an airborne warning and control system aircraft, the P-3 surveillance aircraft and the F-15 jet fighter, but did not say how many planes of each type.

A version of the EP-3 surveillance aircraft was involved in a major diplomatic incident between China and the United States in 2001 when an American EP-3 collided with a Chinese jet fighter over the South China Sea. The Chinese pilot was killed, and the American plane made an emergency landing on Hainan Island in southern China, an accident that badly damaged relations.

On Friday, under questioning from reporters asking for clarification of China’s intentions regarding the new air zone, the spokesman at the Foreign Ministry, Qin Gang, said, "The Air Defense Identification Zone does not equal territorial airspace, and is not an expansion of a country’s territorial airspace."

The spokesman also said, "Aircraft of all countries, including commercial aircraft, carrying out normal flight according to international law will not be affected."

The creation of the "air defense identification zone" by Beijing ratcheted up the tense relations between China and Japan, a treaty ally of the United States, and drew harsh criticism from Washington.

Many countries, including the United States and Japan, have air defense zones, but the coordinates of the Chinese zone overlap with parts of the Japanese zone, setting up what defense experts have called a provocative and dangerous situation in the airspace above the disputed islands.

The United States immediately challenged the new air zone and the threat of military action by dispatching two unarmed B-52 bombers into the zone on Monday without giving notice to China. The Chinese took no action, saying only that they had monitored the B-52s.

Mr. Qin, the Foreign Ministry spokesman, brushed aside questions about Japanese criticism of China's air defense zone.

"Would the Japanese side tell other countries, does it have an A.D.I.Z.?" Mr. Qin said. "Has it negotiated with other countries while it established and enlarged its A.D.I.Z.? How large is its A.D.I.Z.?"

 

[plawolf]

Hendrik, just ignore Kroko's flame baits. He is just working out his pent up frustration because of how rarely he gets to say that China did something wrong and not being utterly wrong.

That is quite obvious from his excessive repetition of saying how China was wrong here or bungled there, and his deliberate attempt to spin the story and twist the facts to suit his own aims is plain for all to see.

Even the blatantly biased western media stressed that China was deliberately vague of what it meant by 'emergency defensive measures', nor has China ever stated that it will intercept each and every intrusion into its ADIZ. The ADIZ is China reserving the right to scramble fighters to investigate undeclared aero contacts that refuse to ID themselves. It is not a promise that China will intercept each and every breach of its ADIZ, especially if foreign aircraft just dipped their toe in and pull out straight away.

I agree with Kroko that China should at least have got those B52s on the radio, but to go and suggest some 'technical inexperience' is pure fanciful nonsense and is merely him projecting his own prejudices and bias rather than any remotely rational analysis of the facts.

 

[SamuraiBlue]

I think this violation have given China a bag of goodies.

1. By ignoring Chinese rule for identification in their ADIZ. China can effectively ignore all ADIZ of countries like Japan and SK. The Chinese can send surveillance unmark planes and not responds to identification or turn on radio communication to those countries. In effect. The Chinese planners have made those ADIZ of japan and sk useless. The Chinese air force can in practice conduct military flights through those zones without notifying those countries. The US on the other hand is disobeying Chinese ADIZ rules only to save face because they have treaties with their allies in the region to uphold. They can't look weak, China understands this so she not concern with the US.

No since PLAAF never responded from the start. As proof you can see the amount of JASDF making scramble against PLAAF intrusion into Japanese ADIZ which didn't start yesterday.

 

[Engineer]

Really? in the case of the B-52, they didnt even comunicate via radio. Only later the chinese MoD informed that they had "monitored" the flight. And thats it. And what consequences are that you are mentioning? economic ones? military ones? the chinese government hasnt said anything about this. Do you speak for the chinese government?

Face the reality. Clearly, China blundered this time. Even people in china say it. I think that by now even PLA knows it.

The simple reality is that one can't violate something that is not there. By purposely flying into and tested China's ADIZ, US has inadvertently acknowledged the ADIZ's existence even though the US overtly stated China's ADIZ will not be recognized. So as per your use of "blundered" for success in this situation, China has indeed blundered like an Olympic gold medalist.

 

[SamuraiBlue]

ADIZ or no AIDZ, PLAAF will still not enter within 10miles of Senkaku since that would be considered as intrusion of Japan's territorial air space (from Japan's perspective) in which Japan has the right to deny and defend.

 

[Engineer]

ADIZ or no AIDZ, PLAAF will still not enter within 10miles of Senkaku since that would be considered as intrusion of Japan's territorial air space (from Japan's perspective) in which Japan has the right to deny and defend.

It is 10 nm, not 10 miles, and China coast guard vessels have entered into that region on multiple occasions already. There was little Japan could do about it.

 

[Blackstone]

The simple reality is that one can't violate something that is not there. By purposely flying into and tested China's ADIZ, US has inadvertently acknowledged the ADIZ's existence even though the US overtly stated China's ADIZ will not be recognized. So as per your use of "blundered" for success in this situation, China has indeed blundered like an Olympic gold medalist.

The US made calculated moves to keep tensions from boiling over, and to make the best of a bad situation. Nothing inadvertent about it.

 

[Blackstone]

ADIZ or no AIDZ, PLAAF will still not enter within 10miles of Senkaku since that would be considered as intrusion of Japan's territorial air space (from Japan's perspective) in which Japan has the right to deny and defend.

China doesn't recognize Diaoyu islands as Japanese territory, so it has no right to deny China from patrolling her own territory.

 

[Engineer]

The US made calculated moves to keep tensions from boiling over, and to make the best of a bad situation. Nothing inadvertent about it.

Like I have said, one can't violate something that is not there. Violating China's ADIZ only serves to highlight its existence as very real, despite what US and Japan governments are claiming. It is a success for China, especially when we are seeing attempts to paint China's decision to be illegal.