East China Sea Air Defense ID Zone

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AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
Interesting how China gets criticize for the size of the zone they declared yet the Japanese zone extends much further from Japan basically boxing in China. But then that's of course because Japan has a lot of islands in that area they control. Tis why you won't be seeing any resolution because it was set up that way to contain China in the first place. The US likes it the way it is so they don't care about how these islands and territories were acquired. The media describes a lot of these disputed islands as just uninhabited rocks. Yeah but that's not the point. It's setting up these zones and claiming waters around them is what is the whole point.
 

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Well , no . Things like that happened zillion time in Cold War , with US or Soviet bombers flying "aggressively" near the opponents bombers . They were routinely identified but no shoots were fired when those aircraft were in international airspace . Some of those bombers might have been armed , even with nuclear weapons (you never know what is inside bomb bay) .

There were few incidents at beginning of the Cold War , when American recon planes allegedly entered Soviet airspace and Soviets managed to shoot down some of them , but as I said Soviets always maintained that this happened in their own airspace , not in some kind of ADIZ in international airspace :

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Not allegedly. Francis Gary Powers, who flew a U-2, was shot down by the first generation Soviet SAMs. Previously nothing in the Soviet arsenal could even touch those magnificent planes, which explains why the American pilots flew reconnaissance missions over Soviet territory with relative impunity.

When the SR-71 came out, nothing in anyone's arsenal could touch them (not even the Foxbats, though they certainly tried). They routinely flew over Soviet and Chinese territory with impunity and in the case of China, only stopped after the relationships between China and the U.S. warmed during the 1980s.
 

port_08

Junior Member
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..
Zhang Junshe, an expert with the Chinese navy, said it would help to mitigate any risk of miscalculation if the two sides could sit down and discuss air safety.

"It depends on whether Tokyo will act cooperatively or if it remains confrontational now that China's designation of the zone is firm and final."

Managing differences

Chai Lidan, a specialist in air defense, said it is common international practice that two countries having controversial air defense zones negotiate a pact but that Japan has displayed a lack of responsibility.

"By shutting the door on communication, Japan once again puts the security of its citizens at stake, asking Japanese airlines not to report flight information to Chinese authorities as required," she added.
..
 

kroko

Senior Member
BEIJING (AP) — China said it sent warplanes into its newly declared maritime air defense zone days after the U.S., South Korea and Japan all sent flights through the airspace in broadening defiance of rules Beijing says it has imposed over the East China Sea.

China's air force on Thursday sent several fighter jets and an early warning aircraft on normal air patrols in the zone, the Xinhua agency reported, citing air force spokesman Shen Jinke.

The report did not specify exactly when the flights were sent or whether they had encountered foreign military aircraft. The United States, Japan and South Korea have said they have sent military or coast guard flights through the zone without encountering any Chinese response since Beijing announced its creation last week.

Shen described Thursday's flights as "a defensive measure and in line with international common practices." He said China's air force would remain on high alert and will take measures to protect the country's airspace. Chinese officials have said commercial flights are unaffected by the new rules.

While China's surprise announcement last week announcing the zone initially raised some tensions in the region, analysts say Beijing's motive is not to trigger an aerial confrontation but is a more long-term strategy to solidify claims to disputed territory by simply marking the area as its own.

China's lack of efforts to stop the foreign flights — including two U.S. B-52s that flew through the zone on Tuesday — has been an embarrassment for Beijing. Even some Chinese state media outlets suggested Thursday that Beijing may have mishandled the episodes.

"Beijing needs to reform its information release mechanism to win the psychological battles waged by Washington and Tokyo," the Global Times, a nationalist tabloid published by the Communist Party's flagship People's Daily, said in an editorial.


Without prior notice, Beijing began demanding Saturday that passing aircraft identify themselves and accept Chinese instructions or face consequences in an East China Sea zone that overlaps a similar air defense identification zone overseen by Japan since 1969 and initially part of one set up by the U.S. military.

But when tested just days later by U.S. B-52 flights — with Washington saying it made no effort to comply with China's rules, and would not do so in the future — Beijing merely noted, belatedly, that it had seen the flights and taken no further action.

South Korea's military said Thursday its planes flew through the zone this week without informing China and with no apparent interference. Japan also said its planes have been continuing to fly through it after the Chinese announcement, while the Philippines, locked in an increasingly bitter dispute with Beijing over South China Sea islands, said it also was rejecting China's declaration.

Again, this ADIZ was poorly setup. It reflects technical inexperience from the part of PLA. They should never stated that there would be consequences for foreign military planes if they didnt comply with the ADIZ rules. Now they are flying missions to the ADIZ, to do what if they are not intercepting anything? pleasure flights? Seems like they are avoiding foreign military planes.

Bad PR for PLA and china.
 

port_08

Junior Member
Again, this ADIZ was poorly setup. It reflects technical inexperience from the part of PLA. They should never stated that there would be consequences for foreign military planes if they didnt comply with the ADIZ rules. Now they are flying missions to the ADIZ, to do what if they are not intercepting anything? pleasure flights? Seems like they are avoiding foreign military planes.

Bad PR for PLA and china.

I'm not sure whether its poorly setup or not, but it has created a right topic of discussion and "world" attention. Now we can see clearly, who's doing what, who's having what, the so call "good" guys and the "bad" guys.
 

kroko

Senior Member
Chai Lidan, a specialist in air defense, said it is common international practice that two countries having controversial air defense zones negotiate a pact but that Japan has displayed a lack of responsibility.

"By shutting the door on communication, Japan once again puts the security of its citizens at stake, asking Japanese airlines not to report flight information to Chinese authorities as required," she added.
..

is this specialist suggesting that PLAAF would shot down civilian planes? Whoa.

The ADIZ rules dont even aply to international civilian flights AFAIK but i could be wrong.
 

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
Again, this ADIZ was poorly setup. It reflects technical inexperience from the part of PLA. They should never stated that there would be consequences for foreign military planes if they didnt comply with the ADIZ rules. Now they are flying missions to the ADIZ, to do what if they are not intercepting anything? pleasure flights? Seems like they are avoiding foreign military planes.

Bad PR for PLA and china.

No they didn't avoid military plane or shoot one for that matter But they will request identification Whether the other side comply or not they will be warned and bring it to diplomatic avenue to resolve it but repeated offense will certainly bring consequence . Now that china declare the air around diaoyutai island as ADIZ she has the legal right to be in the air around the island

We have not cross that threshold now
 
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plawolf

Lieutenant General
is this specialist suggesting that PLAAF would shot down civilian planes? Whoa.

The ADIZ rules dont even aply to international civilian flights AFAIK but i could be wrong.

Can the mock outrage and attempt to flame bait, because that is so obviously not what was meant.

Why would not following Chinese instructions in the ADIZ be potentially dangerous you will ask? Because in effect, the ADIZ has become the new air traffic control zone for China as far as civilian flights are concerned.

For every other airline, once they enter the ADIZ, they will be following the instructions of what will effectively be Chinese air traffic control, who may divert passenger jets from their original routes for various reasons. Need I spell out how it could be dangerous if everyone else followed Chinese air traffic control's instructions while the Japanese airlines ignored them?
 

kroko

Senior Member
No they didn't avoid military plane or shoot one for that matter But they will request identification Whether the other side comply or not they will be warned and bring it to diplomatic avenue to resolve it but repeated offense will certainly bring consequence . Now that china declare the air around diaoyutai island as ADIZ she has the legal right to be in the air around the island

We have not cross that threshold now

Really? in the case of the B-52, they didnt even comunicate via radio. Only later the chinese MoD informed that they had "monitored" the flight. And thats it. And what consequences are that you are mentioning? economic ones? military ones? the chinese government hasnt said anything about this. Do you speak for the chinese government?

Face the reality. Clearly, China blundered this time. Even people in china say it. I think that by now even PLA knows it.
 

joshuatree

Captain
is this specialist suggesting that PLAAF would shot down civilian planes? Whoa.

The ADIZ rules dont even aply to international civilian flights AFAIK but i could be wrong.

I believe the US's reply to US airlines is to take precaution and use what means you deem necessarily which is pragmatic, quite the opposite of Japan to Japanese airlines which is stand down, don't comply, it is more important than making sure the flight is safe. Japanese airlines had already intended to file so they can focus on their business but then got pulled back by the Japanese govt.

I already stated early on that the commercial and civilian flights are the ones that will be caught in the squeeze.
 
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