East China Sea Air Defense ID Zone

[Equation]

Fu, you are new...Blackstone, you know better. Can it. Don't post, and then gen up war mongering/provocative/inflammatory posts. A picture of a 1/700 scale model of the Hyuga has NOTHING to do with this ADIZ. We are trying to maintain a professional forum.

Both posts removed.

STOP with the provocative posts.

Stick to the topic, or there will be suspensions. Last warning.

Keep up the good moderator work Jeff, especially on this important subject matter.

 

[Air Force Brat]

Let's make thing clear : Japan has right to scramble jets and to identify unknown aircraft in international airspace . It doesn't have right to open fire at it (unless attacked of course) , to threaten it , to cross its flightpath and endanger it .
Same goes for China , US or any other country .

Expect this to get the Chengdu gang off the back burner and back into the fifth gen fighter biz, the ADIZ is no doubt designed to do many of the things it has already done.

1. Respond to the Pacific pivot of US defense interests.

2."Ilustrate and Justify to the Chinese people the need to maintain a strong Naval and Air-Force presence in the Diayou and the entire ADIZ zone, stepping in to the role of the 2nd most powerful nation on earth with aspirations to be number 1.

3. "Inform" the neighbors that they are "new" power-brokers in the Region, and if you want to play, you will have to join our "League".

4.Renew a strategic partnership with Russia, to double team the opposition, playing good cop/bad cop, with NK as the problem child???

This is submitted respectfully by someone who realizes that our own "chest-thumping", and poor diplomacy skills have led to resentment of our "disrespectful" attitudes toward other cultures, as we love to admonish others, we really ought to have looked in the mirror.

I have no desire to see anyone subjugated under any circumstances, only to defend those freedoms which in my world view are God-Given, and to make it clear, with these freedoms come many responsibilities for all of us. Respectfully offered for your consideration....

Mods, please feel free to edit or delete this in part or in whole as to your good judgement. thank-you!


Bax Maggart

 

[escobar]

Like US, china should have stated that: "aircraft not intending to enter national airspace should not comply with ADIZ procedures" but in actual practice doing the exact opposite like US. Then the B-52 and japan/korea aircraft flight through the ADIZ would not have so much impact in the media.

Unless they did it deliberately. If so I wonder why?

 

[Blitzo]

Using force against non-attacking aircraft in international airspace is clear breach of international law . Identification , including flying alongside , is not .

Yes.

However, if you see a bomber that is not responding to hails, if you can see it is carrying offensive weapons, and if it is maneuvering aggressively, then you are not going to wait until it enters your airspace to shoot it down.

Of course, the US hopefully wouldn't do such a thing if it meant to start a war with China.


And that's why the ADIZ exists. It doesn't give China the right to shoot down aircraft in international airspace no more than the US's ADIZ does. However it gives them the ability to make it more difficult for potentially hostile flying objects to do sneak attacks.

one can argue whether any nation today would be willing to attack another without formally declaring war first, but that doesn't precclude a need to account for that possibility.

 

[asif iqbal]

Imagie the J10 pilots published photo opp waving at the B-52 crews! Lol

 

[Air Force Brat]

Yes.

However, if you see a bomber that is not responding to hails, if you can see it is carrying offensive weapons, and if it is maneuvering aggressively, then you are not going to wait until it enters your airspace to shoot it down.

Of course, the US hopefully wouldn't do such a thing if it meant to start a war with China.


And that's why the ADIZ exists. It doesn't give China the right to shoot down aircraft in international airspace no more than the US's ADIZ does. However it gives them the ability to make it more difficult for potentially hostile flying objects to do sneak attacks.

one can argue whether any nation today would be willing to attack another without formally declaring war first, but that doesn't precclude a need to account for that possibility.

Yes, and the US psyche is not to start another confrontation, as we have been in a defensive/offensive posture in the ME for over twenty years now, what the "B-52 navigation means is simply that the airways are open, we do recognize China's twelve mile limit, the same as ours, and the ADIZ is questionable mostly for intent, playing the victim card doesn't work when you are the number two economy in the world, and likely own the world largest land army. Everybody knows that if the US had any vile intentions toward anyone, it would not send a lone, unarmed, large, sitting duck. If we had any desire to "get ugly", your first clue would be what???? lots of people criticize the US, so what, wanna hear us whine, nah, I for one am sick of whiners, yuck.

 

[bajingan]

I think this violation have given China a bag of goodies.

1. By ignoring Chinese rule for identification in their ADIZ. China can effectively ignore all ADIZ of countries like Japan and SK. The Chinese can send surveillance unmark planes and not responds to identification or turn on radio communication to those countries. In effect. The Chinese planners have made those ADIZ of japan and sk useless. The Chinese air force can in practice conduct military flights through those zones without notifying those countries. The US on the other hand is disobeying Chinese ADIZ rules only to save face because they have treaties with their allies in the region to uphold. They can't look weak, China understands this so she not concern with the US.

 

[Rutim]

1. By ignoring Chinese rule for identification in their ADIZ. China can effectively ignore all ADIZ of countries like Japan and SK. The Chinese can send surveillance unmark planes and not responds to identification or turn on radio communication to those countries. In effect. The Chinese planners have made those ADIZ of japan and sk useless. The Chinese air force can in practice conduct military flights through those zones without notifying those countries. The US on the other hand is disobeying Chinese ADIZ rules only to save face because they have treaties with their allies in the region to uphold. They can't look weak, China understands this so she not concern with the US.

Well, they were doing that already...

 

[flyzies]

The Japanese request for China to cancel its ADIZ is brilliant! Why? Because you can't cancel something thats not there. Which means they've already accepted its presence.

This is not poker, and China is not bluffing. It's not chess, as China hasn't taken the US/Jap queen. China is playing weiqi, and it's just placed down a fantastic marker which completely changes the course of the game.

Google China news and there's over 4000 articles re China's new ADIZ, vast majority of those articles are biased against China. They can claim a propaganda victory all they want, but deep down, they all know China is making the moves and they're all just reacting to China's game.

 

[thunderchief]

Yes.
However, if you see a bomber that is not responding to hails, if you can see it is carrying offensive weapons, and if it is maneuvering aggressively, then you are not going to wait until it enters your airspace to shoot it down.

Well , no . Things like that happened zillion time in Cold War , with US or Soviet bombers flying "aggressively" near the opponents bombers . They were routinely identified but no shoots were fired when those aircraft were in international airspace . Some of those bombers might have been armed , even with nuclear weapons (you never know what is inside bomb bay) .

There were few incidents at beginning of the Cold War , when American recon planes allegedly entered Soviet airspace and Soviets managed to shoot down some of them , but as I said Soviets always maintained that this happened in their own airspace , not in some kind of ADIZ in international airspace :

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