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[plawolf]

Re: Japanese Return to Militarism!

Japanese are smarter then Germans in this regard - they didn't fall in that guilt trip trap . In reality , human history is full of so called "wars of aggression" . You always have nations that want to keep something (conservative powers) and nations that want to get something (revisionist powers). Sometimes one side wins , and sometimes other . It is dynamics of human history .

Japanese error in this particular moment of time is that they want to be revisionist power , to get something they lost in WW2 . In reality , not only they cannot achieve that , they will have tough time to keep their current position in East Asia . Both economics and demographics are not on their side , so they made head for catastrophic defeat .

No no no! There is no such thing as a 'guilt trap'. No one tricked Germany into feeling guilty about the crimes of the nazis, and to suggest so is pretty insulting to both Germans and the victims of the nazis. Germany's deep shame and remorse for WWII is largely due to the holocaust, which set Nazi Germany's crimes apart from most of your average run of the mill wars of aggression in modern times. And the German people's genuine displays of remorse and determination to remember what was once done in their name so that it is never repeated is an example to as all.

What Japan did to the peoples and territories they captured was much worse in both the level of barbarism and the sheer scale of it since pretty much every Japanese soldier participated rather than just a small number of hardcore fanatics like the SS with Germany. That alone would have made it much harder to forgive their crimes, and their total lack of believable remorse and contrition has only made things a hundred times worse.

Japan's total lack of remorse for their crimes of WWII is not a sign of them being 'smarter', quite the opposite, it shows a great deal of arrogance and base stupidity to keep such horrific crimes from so long ago an active and ongoing issue. Germany's behaviour and attitude is enlightened, whereas Japan's only shame themselves.

 

[thunderchief]

Re: Japanese Return to Militarism!

No no no! There is no such thing as a 'guilt trap'. No one tricked Germany into feeling guilty about the crimes of the nazis, and to suggest so is pretty insulting to both Germans and the victims of the nazis. Germany's deep shame and remorse for WWII is largely due to the holocaust, which set Nazi Germany's crimes apart from most of your average run of the mill wars of aggression in modern times. And the German people's genuine displays of remorse and determination to remember what was once done in their name so that it is never repeated is an example to as all.

What Japan did to the peoples and territories they captured was much worse in both the level of barbarism and the sheer scale of it since pretty much every Japanese soldier participated rather than just a small number of hardcore fanatics like the SS with Germany. That alone would have made it much harder to forgive their crimes, and their total lack of believable remorse and contrition has only made things a hundred times worse.

Japan's total lack of remorse for their crimes of WWII is not a sign of them being 'smarter', quite the opposite, it shows a great deal of arrogance and base stupidity to keep such horrific crimes from so long ago an active and ongoing issue. Germany's behaviour and attitude is enlightened, whereas Japan's only shame themselves.

Germany's remorse is a product of false belief they did something that was far worse than anything that happened in history before or after . In reality , that is not the truth : Jewish tragedy was not only tragedy in WW2 , neither was the biggest . And if look at whole bloody 20th century there is even less evidence to support that claim . In fact Chinese people suffered most casualties and Russians and Ukrainians lost biggest percentage of the population . Only difference is that those people didn't have enough influence in media and academia to promote their suffering .

As for Japan , they are far wiser in this regard . They know that they waged cruel and barbaric war of conquest , but they also know that they were not only ones who created empires in this matter ( for example , look what did British do to create their own empire , or what Qin and Han dynasties did to unify China ) . They also understand that their enemies used similar methods against them (firebombings , nuclear weapons .... ) and were not morally superior in this regard . So , Japanese remorse is mainly because of human nature to wage war and create suffering , not because they believe they are more guilty then others .

 

[TerraN_EmpirE]

Re: Japan's military build-up

Germany was healed to account because the Holocaust was a crime a deliberate act it may not be striking in its numbers but, the horror of its engineering. It was a factory of death meant to hide the act. Designed to create the illusion of humanity painted over a inhuman act and impose a artificial disconnect between those doing the act those living in and around it and the victims.
In the history of mass murder the Holocaust numbers wise just barely makes the top twenty. In the history of the twentieth century maybe fourth place. But in the deliberate nature the engineering efficientcy of the action even going so far as to process the remains for any valuables. It was a factory of death. The actions of Germany brought a whole new level of horror. This was the actions of someone fully aware of what they were doing not troops in the field fighting for their lives not bombers levelling city blocks because of a aircraft factory. It demanded remembering. It still does. The guilt trip as you call it was simply breaking down the wall and showing them exactly what they had done. Taking them no tours of the camps making them help the victims of their acts or making them busy those who were beyond help. Most of the worst acts of history Andersonville, The Great Leap forward, population of Siberia, for example are good ideas that fail reality. The Holocaust was pure evil made reality. And those who forget it dismiss it or refute it leave the possibility of repeating it.
That said you also should eventually move on. The majority of those who took part in such action are already dead any who still live are counting down till death. You cannot hold the children responsible for the acts of their parents.

 

[advill]

Re: Japan's military build-up

I wholeheartedly agree with the last paragraph of TerraN_Empire re: sins of the fathers are not their sons. If we now repeatedly and naggingly hold the Japanese people responsible for the atrocities committed by their "fathers" and nation during WW II in the Far East, then others could also quote historical cruelties (including recent ones) committed by some Powers including China. History has at times been quoted to serve the antagonist's objective of damning its opponent or enemy. This can be dangerous as if often repeated, the targeted nation would be frustrated/hostile at the "bullying tactics". The opposite effect could happen - this is becoming obvious where Japan is concerned. By nature the present day Japanese people are relatively cultured, not vocal or easily put on a show of aggression - BUT don't push them to the limit and threaten the Nation's existence. Those knowing culture/history should realize this, UNLESS the country concerned wants hostility or War (for whatever reasons) with Japan. Most of us would know that Japan would be ready for any eventualities.

Germany was healed to account because the Holocaust was a crime a deliberate act it may not be striking in its numbers but, the horror of its engineering. It was a factory of death meant to hide the act. Designed to create the illusion of humanity painted over a inhuman act and impose a artificial disconnect between those doing the act those living in and around it and the victims.
In the history of mass murder the Holocaust numbers wise just barely makes the top twenty. In the history of the twentieth century maybe fourth place. But in the deliberate nature the engineering efficientcy of the action even going so far as to process the remains for any valuables. It was a factory of death. The actions of Germany brought a whole new level of horror. This was the actions of someone fully aware of what they were doing not troops in the field fighting for their lives not bombers levelling city blocks because of a aircraft factory. It demanded remembering. It still does. The guilt trip as you call it was simply breaking down the wall and showing them exactly what they had done. Taking them no tours of the camps making them help the victims of their acts or making them busy those who were beyond help. Most of the worst acts of history Andersonville, The Great Leap forward, population of Siberia, for example are good ideas that fail reality. The Holocaust was pure evil made reality. And those who forget it dismiss it or refute it leave the possibility of repeating it.
That said you also should eventually move on. The majority of those who took part in such action are already dead any who still live are counting down till death. You cannot hold the children responsible for the acts of their parents.

 

[flight1088]

if Japan try to launch the war with china again that nation will be terminated just

simply like that...no kidding...

 

[Phead128]

Re: Japan's military build-up

I don't understand, Japan took the ultimate risk by fighting a war of conquest over China, then lost that gamble over domination of Asia...

And now, Japan is allegedly trying to contain China.

Does Japan want to be her ass destroyed in a third Sino-Japanese war?

 

[Phead128]

Re: Japan's military build-up

China is too big, too powerful, and too close for Japan to have the luxury to treat as a permanent enemy forever.

Thus, reconciliation (read: five-star kowtow that Beijing demands) is the only option for Japan in the long term, not the carefully worded apologies that disingenously suggests sincere remorse on the part of Japanese while continuing to provoke China on issues like Yasukuni shrine visits, historical revisionism, and nationalization/territorial disputes.

 

[kwaigonegin]

Re: Japanese Return to Militarism!

No no no! There is no such thing as a 'guilt trap'. No one tricked Germany into feeling guilty about the crimes of the nazis, and to suggest so is pretty insulting to both Germans and the victims of the nazis. Germany's deep shame and remorse for WWII is largely due to the holocaust, which set Nazi Germany's crimes apart from most of your average run of the mill wars of aggression in modern times. And the German people's genuine displays of remorse and determination to remember what was once done in their name so that it is never repeated is an example to as all.

What Japan did to the peoples and territories they captured was much worse in both the level of barbarism and the sheer scale of it since pretty much every Japanese soldier participated rather than just a small number of hardcore fanatics like the SS with Germany. That alone would have made it much harder to forgive their crimes, and their total lack of believable remorse and contrition has only made things a hundred times worse.

Japan's total lack of remorse for their crimes of WWII is not a sign of them being 'smarter', quite the opposite, it shows a great deal of arrogance and base stupidity to keep such horrific crimes from so long ago an active and ongoing issue. Germany's behaviour and attitude is enlightened, whereas Japan's only shame themselves.

Let's not forget the power and influence of Hollywood.. yes I know many of you may think it is silly BUT the truth is public opinions or even perception is form by a lot of what we see even if it's from the movies or TV.
I mean how many WW II type movies have there been made about Nazism, Hitler WWII etc? a LOT more than ones strictly based on Japanese Imperial Army.
there have been hundreds if not thousands of movies, documentaries etc made in regards to German aggression, Holocause etc and I would wager only a tiny smidgen of it about Japanese atrocities.
Heck I can probably name off the top of my head 10 movies made in the past 50 years about the European theater but maybe 1 or 2 on the Pacific war. Even those that were made about the Pacific wars has been focus on military vs military combat action and not attrocities on civilians. The Rape of Nanking is the exception but again how many folks have seen it? not many.
Let's not forget also that Hitler's face/image is universally recognizable not to mention a modern cliche for 'evil'. Many even called him the anti-chrst.. yet how many folks know what Hirohito looks like? practically no one unless you're a WWII buff or history major. I think that alone speaks volumes.
I want to ad also that while there have been many movies made about Japanese atrocities, many of these are locally made from Hong Kong, China etc and at best their audience are mainly the local asian market unlike the Hollywood ones which has a world audience.

 

[ABC78]

Re: Japanese Return to Militarism!

The title of this thread is changed to "Build-Up" which is much better than "Militarism" which is a misnomer connoting that the Japanese are PRESENTLY the Villains. We know that China has extensively built-up their Armed Forces for whatever political, security or military reasons during the past decades. Of course there have been commentaries inc. "Vigorously stepping-up its Economic & Military Power". However, if China's Armed Forces, including its PLA-N DOES NOT start serious hostilities in sea territorial disputes, it would be fair to comment that PRC's Navy is a benign force for the moment. Same reasoning applies with the Japanese Armed Forces which have taken steps to boost the defenses of their country and territories, and not invade other territories. All these rhetorics by nations have to be examined clearly and objectively, and hopefully be settled by diplomatic means where possible. But if there is NO headway, military analysts including the Chinese Seasoned Warrior of Old "Sun Tzu" expounded : "Never Underestimate your Opposition (Enemy)" - do it at your peril when the shooting starts.

I not going to a big deal about the thread title it's Popeye's privilege as Chief Moderator to do as he sees fit. But I chose the word Militarism since speakers in the video(via translators) used it and expressed those concerns and fears. Particularly the old Japanese man that was trying to educated japanese students on the folly and destruction that militarism can lead to.

For those of us that recall the concerns of many in the west of a reunified Germany in the 90's people asked the question of whether the possibility of fascism could rear it's ugly head again.

Like many in the US are concerned about Chinese military developments because the Chinese are not particular clear or transparent about it.(Part Sun Tzu on keeping military plans secret and very underdeveloped military to military relations with the US.)

Japan can go either way their path isn't set.

"those that fail to learn from mistakes of the past are doomed to repeat them"

 

[usaf0314]

Re: Japanese Return to Militarism!

Germany's remorse is a product of false belief they did something that was far worse than anything that happened in history before or after . In reality , that is not the truth : Jewish tragedy was not only tragedy in WW2 , neither was the biggest . And if look at whole bloody 20th century there is even less evidence to support that claim . In fact Chinese people suffered most casualties and Russians and Ukrainians lost biggest percentage of the population . Only difference is that those people didn't have enough influence in media and academia to promote their suffering .

As for Japan , they are far wiser in this regard . They know that they waged cruel and barbaric war of conquest , but they also know that they were not only ones who created empires in this matter ( for example , look what did British do to create their own empire , or what Qin and Han dynasties did to unify China ) . They also understand that their enemies used similar methods against them (firebombings , nuclear weapons .... ) and were not morally superior in this regard . So , Japanese remorse is mainly because of human nature to wage war and create suffering , not because they believe they are more guilty then others .

Morally superior? Firebombing and the use of nuclear weapon were intended for strategic targets and military/production installations, yes there were civilian casualties, but it was at a cost of a military strategic operation and to end the war as soon as possible to avoid further blood shed. What did the Japanese Kuandong Army do? they raped, pillaged, burned for no other reason than entertainment and fame. There was no military target, it got to the point where high commanding officers would compete in who would cut off most chinese heads in 1 day. This being said, I don't want to hear your crap about "we're not morally superior in this regard"

Don't even get me started with Unit 731