071 LPD thread

cn_habs

Junior Member
re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

Are you sure its so short away from Hainan Island?

Haha I was just sceptical as you were until I started to Google around.

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So the Sanya base is only 328 km away from the Paracel Islands and Wiki suggests that the Zubr has a range of 480 km at 55 knots which is pretty damn fast. ;)
 

asif iqbal

Lieutenant General
re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

Yeah I know 15 vessels is too much that's why I said its pushing it for all 12,000 marines

Anyhow personally I think China is waiting for either Z15 or some other helo we don't know about, because they are certainly happy with Z8 because its made so many variants but are not too happy with Z9, hence the Kamov orders, if they wanted more Z9 they could make them in no time cus they have exported so many of them too

So it's really comes down to when Z15 can appear in good numbers before LHD comes online, which will take Z15, WZ10 and Z8 maybe around 20 helicopter capacity, like 6 x WZ10, 6 x Z15 and 6-8 x Z8, maybe all the new FFG and DDG have hangers to accommodate Z15 sized helo, since no point in making Z9 for them and then few years down to line they replace with Z15, that would be a waste of resources

If they do go for a LHD Chinese naval aviation will have to expand dramatically from the 80 or so helos they have now to a few hundred, Rusia is making helos like no tomorrow for thier LHD from France
 

cn_habs

Junior Member
re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

China (or any nation for that matter) will never need the capacity to deploy all of it's marines in one go because not all of those marines would be available for deployment all at once.

In addition, I can see the PLAN being more interested in LHDs than LPDs in the long run, and this is an area where I can easily see the PLAN diverging greatly from the US model.

Firstly, unlike the US, China has no reason to need to deploy so many marines so far from home. They do not need to come to Europe's aid to help fight off the Soviet Red Army, and they do not try to be the world's policeman, so no amphibious invasions of Iraq or Afghanistan.

The main reason China is pursuing LPDs is the old adage about better being prepared in having something and not need it rather than getting caught out needing something and not having it. As such, I do not see them needing or wanting anything like as many LPDs as you are suggesting. I would say that between 4 and 6 would be the most I expect the PLAN to have at any one time unless something drastic happens to change that equation.

I do, however, see the PLAN being quite keen on LHDs once they become available, or maybe more precisely, once China has a decent medium weight helo that would make such vessels worthwhile to have for the PLAN.

LHDs would be a lot more flexible for the PLAN, as they would be able to deploy naval Z10s on them, and thus could be used almost like mini aircraft carriers in the same manner as the US Wasp class, only without fixed wing aviation.

Such LHPs would be a lot more practical to deploy to any trouble spots in the SCS or Africa, both in terms of military assets for evacuation or strike purposes, but also for humanitarian relief missions.

Firstly, the PLAN is not going to have anything like as many carriers as the USN, that means that the PLAN would not likely deploy their carriers like the USN does. I can see a minimum or 3 carriers with two being kept close to home waters at all times and one carrier off on patrol somewhere. To help cover the limited carrier numbers, I can see the PLAN deploying lots of LHDs as the flagships for small action groups to maintain a presence in more areas of interest.

I can see the LPDs being mainly kept near China's coast, along with the Liaoning and any future carrier battle groups while LHDs might serve as first responders with small battle groups on 2-4 FFGs and DDGs as escorts. Any such response group would be able to easily handle small crisis like evacuating nationals or limited strikes on anti-government forces or pirates/terrorists as well as provide humanitarian assistance to natural disasters.

If something big happens, that is where the real carriers would come in, and having the LPDs near home would also allow the PLAN the option of loading up a substantial ground element to go with the carriers if so desired.

Based on all of that, I can easily see the PLAN getting just as many LHDs as LPDs, if not more LHDs. So I can see a future fleet of many 4-6 LPDs and maybe another 4-8 LHDs max for the PLAN.

Yeah I agree. Any platform with a dozen of helicopters is incredibly versatile. Do the big shrimps have anything on the LHD development?
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

Haha I was just sceptical as you were until I started to Google around.

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So the Sanya base is only 328 km away from the Paracel Islands and Wiki suggests that the Zubr has a range of 480 km at 55 knots which is pretty damn fast. ;)

55 knots is only the max speed under optimal conditions. Firstly, I very much doubt such conditions would exists all that often or across such a large area that can you steam at 55 knots all the way to the Parcel Islands from Sanya. Secondly, I very much doubt that the inside of a Zubr will be the most comfortable place in the world when it does hit 55 knots. I would not be happy about the readiness status of troops to land and fight after hours in the hold of a Zubr traveling at 55 knots.

The Zubrs are useful heavy lifters that would have been perfect for a Taiwan operation. Now that the threat of war breaking out across the straits have receded greatly, I think the PLAN has got some head scratching about just what they plan to do with their new Zubrs.

I do not see them being of much use in all the island disputes, since their biggest advantage - being able to lift really heavy armor and a lot of it, is not all that useful when the islands under dispute are normally too small to have much use for such tanks.

As I have alluded to above, the biggest limitations on the Zubrs' range is going to be accommodation for the troops instead of fuel. If China ever wanted to invade somewhere far away where they might need lots of heavy tanks, the Zubrs would make a decent tank transporter if you just carried tanks in them and used the extra space for more fuel. But that's a sub-optimal use of them to say the least.
 

Equation

Lieutenant General
re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

The PLA could always use Zubrs' for military exercises with other nations, like hopefully one day with the US on the PACRIM Naval exercises.;)
 

Mysterre

Banned Idiot
re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

Both the Paracels and DYT are within range of the Zubrs, so there are uses for them outside of a Taiwan scenario.

Also, if China is to attain and advertise the ability to invade Taiwan it will need the hardware to ensure believability and maximize coercive potential. And just because the threat of war is low now doesn't mean some nutcase from the DPP won't get elected in the future and bring China and Taiwan to the brink of war again. In addition, I see the Zubrs as just another step in the shifting of the balance of military power towards China in a Taiwan Straits crisis, the others being the LPD's, LHD's (?), new amphibs, new warships and their associated technologies, more potent aircraft and missile technology, and more generally China's force modernization and improving C4I. The Zubrs will be another spike added to China's big stick.
 

no_name

Colonel
re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

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Is it only one particular fleet that is experimenting with the new style ship number painting? 989 still has the old black painting scheme.
 

A.Man

Major
re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

3 "Mountains!"-3 LPDs of China Navy, 989-Changbaishan, 998-Jinggangshan, 999-Kunlunshan

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Mysterre

Banned Idiot
re: PLAN Type 071 LPD & its Landing Craft

I always suspected there were garage doors for those deployable catwalk bays, now confirmed. There are probably some for the dinghy bays too.
 
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