J-10 Thread III (Closed to posting)

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Martian

Senior Member
J-10B Vigorous Dragon screams overhead

J-10B low-pass flyby
[video=youtube;vYXF06o432Q]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYXF06o432Q&feature=player_embedded[/video]

J-10B lands
[video=youtube;1jj7ZXwhbjo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jj7ZXwhbjo&feature=player_embedded[/video]

[Note: Thank you to HouShanghai for the videos.]
 

Martian

Senior Member
J-10 Vigorous Dragon take-off time lapse

BTkj2.jpg

J-10 Vigorous Dragon take-off time lapse

[Note: Thank you to HouShanghai for the picture.]
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
Thrust vectoring nozzles are expensive, heavy and maintenance intensive.

With its good agility, it was probably decided that the extra cost, weight and reduced reliability/availability was not worth the hassle.

The Russians were certainly hoping that the J10 would use their TVC engines. The orders just never materialized.
 

Lion

Senior Member
With canard there is no need for thrust vector, without canard, thrust vector is required.

There is no such thing called canard and thrust vector.
 

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
With canard there is no need for thrust vector, without canard, thrust vector is required.

There is no such thing called canard and thrust vector.

No.
The X-31 was a US testbed which utilized canards and TVC. The F-15S/MTD was specially developed with canards and TVC as a test bed too.
The russians have built flankers with canards and TVC.

And you can't say whether there's a "need" for canards or tvc or not, it all depends on the aircraft and how you want it to fly.
 
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plawolf

Lieutenant General
Su-30 MKI has both canards and TVC.

And the Russians then decided they could do without canards on the production Su35. There are no plans to put TVC on any of the Eurocanards...

Back on the subject of using the tails as air breaks, well I guess it would make some sense to do that, as the RCS hit will be smaller compared to deploying the full air break.

It could be that what the J20 designers are doing with putting that massive air break on the J20 prototype is similar to what the Russians and Americans did with putting canards and TVC on test planes - to see if actually both were needed or if the design requirements could be met with just one of the two.

I am sure that having both canards and TVC as well as having both an actual air break and being able to use the tails as air breaks all have their own separate advantages, and it would be better to have both as opposed to one or the other. However, all the different features also come with their associated costs, and overall, the platform could be better off if only one of the two is retained.

So the Russians decided they didn't actually need the canard on the Su35, and it could be that with tests, the Chinese decide the J20 doesn't need a dedicated air break when they can use the tails and replace the air break with a big assed fuel tank or more avionics on later prototypes or the production model. The world of design is as much about compromises as it is about inspiration.
 

peperez

New Member
The Su35BM has a lot more of composites. It's empty weight is 20% less than the original Su35 one. The radar, also, is lighter than the original one and there's no need for canards to restore the CG.

Cheers

Pepe
 

Lion

Senior Member
No.
The X-31 was a US testbed which utilized canards and TVC. The F-15S/MTD was specially developed with canards and TVC as a test bed too.
The russians have built flankers with canards and TVC.

And you can't say whether there's a "need" for canards or tvc or not, it all depends on the aircraft and how you want it to fly.

Don't you realise all your mention is prototype only? Of cos I am aware of these pLanes. Do you realise why they did not make it to final design? The su-35 is a classic example. Do you know the finalize design is without canard? I don't want to say more.. Facts is there.
 
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