PLA Small arms

ohan_qwe

Junior Member
I still can't understand the performance of 5.8x42mm with such low pressure. Putting the spec into ballistic calculator shown that DBP-10 need to have pressure at least 46,000 psi to reach the performance listed. Pressure of 5.56x45mm also increase from 55,000psi to 62,000 psiwhen they switch from 55gr to 62gr bullet. Either DBP-10/DBP-191 weaker than advertised or they have higher pressure what currently known.
From a physics point it's the area under the pressure curve that matters not peak pressure. Assume that the propellant burn out at max pressure in the following scenarios.

First gun have 60k psi after the bullet moves 5cm in the barrel then the pressure would be 30k at 10cm and 15k at 20cm.

Second gun with slower powder reach max pressure of 50k at 10cm and have 25k at 20cm.

The second gun could have more energy over the total length of the barrel even if max pressure is lower.
 

Clango

Junior Member
Registered Member
I'm still puzzled by the decision to adopt an SPR style rifle as the main DMR after they first started with the Type 88 under that absurd "5.8 will do everything" idea
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
I'm still puzzled by the decision to adopt an SPR style rifle as the main DMR after they first started with the Type 88 under that absurd "5.8 will do everything" idea
It’s not that much of a shocker really.
first not everyone in NATO or the rest of the world has abandoned the SPR concept. The USMC M27 is a “will do everything” rifle in example. During the GWOT a number of countries retained the 5.56x45mm SPR with selective issue of 7.62x51mm DMRs.
like all things it has a pros and cons.
From a logistics standpoint a SPR means a common cartridge across your infantry units. So if your unit is on the unfortunate end of an encirclement battle, something we have seen in Ukraine.
What ammunition you have can be distributed across your unit. Where a dedicated DMR is likely the odd man out who has to trade his specialist tool for a regular rifle loosing the advantage of that tool. If that encircled unit gets resupply likely by drone having a common cartridge means that you have more overall ammunition per drone than you would if you were specializing. Even if you loose multiple resupply drones what gets through can be used more broadly.
Your regular Riflemen can use the same ammo as your Machine Gunner, your DMR guy can use the same ammunition as your regular riflemen. It also makes transition easier between weapons. As the controls recoil and manual of arms are all but identical. Where a specialist weapon like the old QBU 88 would require retraining. Now generally it’s not that much of a hurdle a day and a half might do for transition but what you really want is to get that new DMR guy on the range not the class room.
The Cons are however that you are operating within the limitations of the standard cartridge.
Intermediate caliber cartridges are generally not meant for use at extreme ranges. They generally make a trade of energy resulting in either loss of stability or loss of penetration over distances. So well a 5.56x45mm at a 1000m is possible at that point the cartridge is basically falling from the sky. It’s got very little penetration and is given to wind and other factors.
Now the Chinese claim the 5.8x42mm is better at maintaining energy and it probably is. There are a number of 6mm cartridges that have better performance vs S109 after all. Still at extended ranges they make similar trades and against hard cover at close ranges they tend to be pulverized at extreme ranges they have nothing behind them.
 

ohan_qwe

Junior Member
Penetration of DVP88 should be 3.5mm A3 steel at 1000m
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But the caliber choice need to be in relation to the doctrine. Just because US was fighting without artillery in Afghanistan and needed 7.62x51 don't mean China need it. China have everything from 35mm grenade launcers and light HMG for that distance to mortars and artillery.

Don't really hear complaints from Ukraine that rifle lack range but they need more artillery shells and drones.
 

Clango

Junior Member
Registered Member
Penetration of DVP88 should be 3.5mm A3 steel at 1000m
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View attachment 174278
But the caliber choice need to be in relation to the doctrine. Just because US was fighting without artillery in Afghanistan and needed 7.62x51 don't mean China need it. China have everything from 35mm grenade launcers and light HMG for that distance to mortars and artillery.

Don't really hear complaints from Ukraine that rifle lack range but they need more artillery shells and drones.
Ah yeah that is true, I was talking with someone about this and they also brought up the fact that the PLA fields things like man portable auto grenade launchers in much much higher numbers than the US Army does, it's kinda like the squad video game where the QLZ87 absolutely does the job that a 7.62 DMR does
 
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