Chinese Marine Propulsion

Blitzo

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
View attachment 169961View attachment 169963
Does anyone know what ship can this possibly be? Likely 2 CGT-30 in generator config with 2 9MW diesel generators for IEP. Did a long distance sea trial in 2024.

052Ds aren't IEP either, I'm personally thinking Liaowang-1 despite them saying it's civilian. This paper itself apparently is from a author in the navy. It's the only large ship that could've been doing some kind of far sea trial by 2024.

First instinct was that 052D DDG-133 Baotou, but the article specified this ship to be civilian in nature.


A friend of mine also suggested Liaowang 1 as a possiblity. It certainly tracks most with the timeline and also with its civilian role most cleanly.
 

Wrought

Captain
Registered Member
A friend of mine also suggested Liaowang 1 as a possiblity. It certainly tracks most with the timeline and also with its civilian role most cleanly.

But Liaowang-1 is a military ship operated by uniformed personnel of the PLA Aerospace Force? Explicitly military, not paramilitary or militia or dual-use or whatever. Those guys are very much not civilians.

 
Last edited:

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
now, I did as @BoraTas about this and he says sodium Fast neutron reactors have higher power density and are better for submarine applications than molten salt reactor. Assuming that is true, we could still have supercritical CO2 turbine instead of steam turbine for naval applications in the future.
Although sodium reactor may have higher power density, I don't think anyone will choose it for submarine after USSR tried it once. Sodium reactor is dangerous due to its reactivity in air.

The advantage of molten salt reactor especially the type that China is pursuing is safety over any other operational reactor including PWR. Power density wise, the 1st and 2nd loop is molten salt instead of pressurized water, I think that reduces the size of footprint therefor better density over PWR in the same way as sodium reactor but without the risk of combustion.
 

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
Also, I understand the energy efficiency value add of super critical CO2, but how does that tech contribute to noise reduction?
Think about the 3 loops. 1st and 2nd loops are molten salt instead of pressurized water. The 3rd loop is supercritical CO2 instead of liquid water and gastrous steam. The pumps run at different speed and are moving different fluid of different density and heat exchange characteristics. The turbines are pushed by different fluids and very different in sizes. The vibration must be different.

For one thing, if the fluid has higher heat exchange capacity, its flow rate can be reduced therefor its pump runs slow, lower noise. Molten salt could be better than water in heat exchange due to its higher density.
 

Blitzo

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
But Liaowang-1 is a military ship operated by uniformed personnel of the PLA Aerospace Force? Explicitly military, not paramilitary or militia or dual-use or whatever. Those guys are very much not civilians.


Is Liaowang-1 explicitly a military ship operated by uniformed personnel?
I believe it is under the purview of the Aerospace Force, but I have not seen direct evidence of it being crewed by uniformed personnel.

As a vessel, I interpret it as an auxiliary, and one that is not purely military in the way the a regular PLAN or PLAGF ship is, in a similar vein to the Yuanwang ships which are also under the civilian moniker rather than military even though it is under the purview of the Aerospace Force (and before that, Strategic support).


I'm not sure what the video has to do with anything, it doesn't directly reference Liaowang-1.
 

Wrought

Captain
Registered Member
Is Liaowang-1 explicitly a military ship operated by uniformed personnel?
I believe it is under the purview of the Aerospace Force, but I have not seen direct evidence of it being crewed by uniformed personnel.

As a vessel, I interpret it as an auxiliary, and one that is not purely military in the way the a regular PLAN or PLAGF ship is, in a similar vein to the Yuanwang ships which are also under the civilian moniker rather than military even though it is under the purview of the Aerospace Force (and before that, Strategic support).


I'm not sure what the video has to do with anything, it doesn't directly reference Liaowang-1.

My understanding is that the Yuanwang/Liaowang ships are commanded by uniformed military personnel, despite hosting a sizable contingent of civilian technical professionals. Which was (one of the reasons) why India was so upset about them showing up in Sri Lanka.

download (1).jpg

The Yuan Wang family of naval vessels serve both the Chinese missile force and its space program, which is run by the People’s Liberation Army, the military wing of the ruling Communist Party.

Previous official Chinese media reports have described PLA officers serving in command positions aboard the vessels in the Yuan Wang class, which may also have civilians in their crews.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
 

Blitzo

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
My understanding is that the Yuanwang/Liaowang ships are commanded by uniformed military personnel, despite hosting a sizable contingent of civilian technical professionals. Which was (one of the reasons) why India was so upset about them showing up in Sri Lanka.

View attachment 170061



Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

I'm not sure if they are under the command of military personnel -- I do know there is a contingent aboard, but in the way it operates it's more of a quasi-civilian auxiliary and the PRC tends to treat it as so.

Of course in practice all space tracking ships help to serve strategic and military uses as well, but what we care about is more how the PRC (and its associated shipbuilders) view them.
 

Wrought

Captain
Registered Member
I'm not sure if they are under the command of military personnel -- I do know there is a contingent aboard, but in the way it operates it's more of a quasi-civilian auxiliary and the PRC tends to treat it as so.

Of course in practice all space tracking ships help to serve strategic and military uses as well, but what we care about is more how the PRC (and its associated shipbuilders) view them.

Well in the context of the original document, it refers to 民用型大型水面舰船。I'm not sufficiently familiar with shipyard nomenclature to know whether that's an appropriate desigation for a PLA-owned ASF-operated ship with a crew of civilian techs.
 

davidau

Senior Member
Registered Member
My understanding is that the Yuanwang/Liaowang ships are commanded by uniformed military personnel, despite hosting a sizable contingent of civilian technical professionals. Which was (one of the reasons) why India was so upset about them showing up in Sri Lanka.

View attachment 170061



Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
whether the Yuanwang/Liaowang ships commanded by uniformed military personnel or civilians, the Indians will spit the dummy!
 

latenlazy

Brigadier
Think about the 3 loops. 1st and 2nd loops are molten salt instead of pressurized water. The 3rd loop is supercritical CO2 instead of liquid water and gastrous steam. The pumps run at different speed and are moving different fluid of different density and heat exchange characteristics. The turbines are pushed by different fluids and very different in sizes. The vibration must be different.

For one thing, if the fluid has higher heat exchange capacity, its flow rate can be reduced therefor its pump runs slow, lower noise. Molten salt could be better than water in heat exchange due to its higher density.
Another big factor to consider if you want to assess vibration characteristics is viscosity at different pressures.
 
Top