J-20... The New Generation Fighter

[Zhong Fei]

Re: New Generation Fighter

It will be stupid for China not to produce the J-10B. 4th and 4.5 generation fighters will stay in the U.S. airforce till about 2030 and they'll stay in service even longer in China's neighboring states. Given how expensive 5th gen fighters are I don't think China could produce enough to provide sufficent defence coverage of the whole country.

I think the key is Modesty. China does not need 400+ J-10s. Maybe somewhere 200 or so then let the rest be 5th Generation fighters. As you said US will have 4th and 4.5 Gneeration Fighters till 2030. Its already 2011.

I say Go with the Research and Development of 5th Generation Fighters and let the 4th generation fighters be made in Modest numbers. Just enough to protect China in the Air to lead to a Ground war if War ever breaks out.

 

[latenlazy]

Re: New Generation Fighter

I think the key is Modesty. China does not need 400+ J-10s. Maybe somewhere 200 or so then let the rest be 5th Generation fighters. As you said US will have 4th and 4.5 Gneeration Fighters till 2030. Its already 2011.

I say Go with the Research and Development of 5th Generation Fighters and let the 4th generation fighters be made in Modest numbers. Just enough to protect China in the Air to lead to a Ground war if War ever breaks out.

Again the problem is phasing in the fighters. Having 200 on hand while waiting for the J-XX to fill in the numbers does not make for a viable air force the size that Chinese military wants. They'll need 400 to replace and complement the J-XX, especially since the J-XX will be entering the air force during an expected time of expansion.

 

[Blitzo]

Re: New Generation Fighter

I think the key is Modesty. China does not need 400+ J-10s. Maybe somewhere 200 or so then let the rest be 5th Generation fighters. As you said US will have 4th and 4.5 Gneeration Fighters till 2030. Its already 2011.

I say Go with the Research and Development of 5th Generation Fighters and let the 4th generation fighters be made in Modest numbers. Just enough to protect China in the Air to lead to a Ground war if War ever breaks out.

China does need 400+ J-10's, to replace all the obsolete J-7's and J-8's (and eventually the early production Su-27's from russia). J-11B's and further upgrades of both planes can fill the ranks.
It's not like PLAAF can afford 400+ J-20, however much that would be preferable. I hope CAC or SAC has something stealthy but cheaper, along the lines of F-35 in the works to pull the grunt work further in future : /

 

[Zhong Fei]

Re: New Generation Fighter

Then How come the PlAAF is still Funding aircrafts like J-8s? I think China if they need 400+ 4.5 fighters right now they should hastily scrap the J-8s as fast as they can make and train pilots for J-10s.

 

[Blitzo]

Re: New Generation Fighter

Then How come the PlAAF is still Funding aircrafts like J-8s? I think China if they need 400+ 4.5 fighters right now they should hastily scrap the J-8s as fast as they can make and train pilots for J-10s.

I'm not sure if J-8's are still being produced, I know the reconnaisance version is, but I'm not sure about the F and H and G versions.

If they are still producing J-8's, there are a number of possible reasons:
1: J-8II is still a fairly capable supersonic platform for MRAAM's, and is enough to deal with most SE Asian states.
2: They're producing J-10's as fast as they can obviously, but it can't fill the PLAAF's needs -- it takes years if not a decade to get a couple of hundred of fighters produced. So J-8II could be an interim fighter.
3: Most importantly, PLAAF are really cheap. Just look at how long they've kept the Q-5's for. Waht the PLAAF wants and needs, and what the PLAAF is willing to fork out are two wholly different things.

That's assuming combat J-8's are still being produced, again.

EDIT:
And if J-8's were still being produced, how is that evidence of the PLAAF deciding to produce a small number of J-10's and instead going to produce massive numbers of 5th gen figthers as you imply?

 

[Zhong Fei]

Re: New Generation Fighter

Nope J-8s are no longer being produced. But the j-8s are still being upgraded to J-8ts. A model made last year. I think it is a ridiculous waste of money to upgrade them if China has the capability and needs to make 4.5 Generation Fighters available before 2020.

 

[Blitzo]

Re: New Generation Fighter

Nope J-8s are no longer being produced. But the j-8s are still being upgraded to J-8ts. A model made last year. I think it is a ridiculous waste of money to upgrade them if China has the capability and needs to make 4.5 Generation Fighters available before 2020.

If J-8's are being upgraded to T standard then it'll be a poor man's J-10, which costs less than buying a whole new J-10 obviously. And J-8T, if it has the multirole capability advertised, would be a pretty effective high speed interceptor with ground attack capability.

It's like saying the US shouldn't upgrade all their F-16's and just spam F-35 production.

 

[Zhong Fei]

Re: New Generation Fighter

Which Brings back my Original Point in making modest sums of j-10s. If j-8ts can do some roles of J-10s.

Personally I think I'd scrap about3/5 of the J-8s or store them and enough parts for maintenance if needs be. J-10s should be made and J-XX priorities.

 

[Blitzo]

Re: New Generation Fighter

Which Brings back my Original Point in making modest sums of j-10s. If j-8ts can do some roles of J-10s.

Personally I think I'd scrap about3/5 of the J-8s or store them and enough parts for maintenance if needs be. J-10s should be made and J-XX priorities.

PLAAF doesnt' have budget of USAF. They're going to fly as much of their plane's life as they can before retiring them... 2020 at least for J-8, while continuing J-10 and J-11 produciton in various variants as the PLAAF will want to expand in quantity.

Producing modest numbers of J-10's and spamming J-20/J-XX doesn't make very much sense.
I won't reply again, this convo's kinda going in circles : /

 

[Blitzo]

Re: New Generation Fighter

Hey does anyone know how the PLAAF or CAC numbers their prototype aircraft?

According to Huitong, the 4th gen fighter prototypes are numbered 2001 and 2002. The J-10 prototypes, I think were numbered 1001, 100x, right?

So could the first two digits mean the J-<xx> numbering, and the last two designating variant and prototype number? (J-10B was 103x, and I can't remember the J-10S, but I'm thinking it could've been 102x?)

Basically, I'm wondering if the 4th gen fighter/J-XX should start being called J-20, if the prototype numbering suggests they've already given a formal J- number.