China's V/STOL studies, concepts & considerations

[Alfa_Particle]

Wow ... but again HOW!

AFAIK there is no F-35B missing in a way, the Chinese could have retrieved anything from remains ... and via data-theft is not exactly what you refer to as "physical, tangible parts."

IMO this is all very mysterious.

Indeed.

What if the MSS have just been shipping spare/damaged parts off, slowly, one by one... /s

 

[mack8]

Ah yes, considering that for instance apparently that ALICE thing is a complete mess, who knows where scores of parts actually ended up. And what parts...

 

[OedoSoldier]

To clarify, the bidding document actually refers to the reverse engineering of key components for the gas generator/core engine of the integrated lift-thrust system. I believe this likely pertains to the F135-100 engine from the F-35C that crashed in the South China Sea in 2022.

一、研究内容（必要条件）：
（1）燃气发生器关键零件尺寸检测；
（2）燃气发生器关键零件材料理化检测分析；
（3）燃气发生器关键零件逆向工程设计；
（4）燃气发生器基准零件分解、清洗与交付。

 

[TK3600]

VTOL is useless ever since helcopter existed. Change my mind.

 

[wuguanhui]

It was the Brits wasn't it? They've been illegally parking F35s all over the place. They left one in India and the Indians put it on ebay as a joke. At least I assumed they were joking.
Or some light fingered scrap thieves nicked the engine while the pilot was taking a dump.

VTOL is useless ever since helcopter existed. Change my mind.

Maybe the Americans leaked it deliberately as a ploy to sabotage Chinese aviation development chasing a dumb VTOL fighter dream.

 

[daifo]

How many F-35Bs crashed in the sea in the relative vicinity of China (so japanese, USMC?). Could China (as incredible as it may sound) have recovered one of these crashed F-35Bs?

My guess is maybe some old engines or parts got "lost" on its return to some main maintenance depot.

 

[Atomicfrog]

VTOL is useless ever since helcopter existed. Change my mind.

They are clearly niche aircrafts that in all normal uses are worse than aircrafts of the same weight. They are still faster than attack helo and can fly higher. I would take attack helicopters for CAS over VTOL fighters if waiting is not a problem.

 

[Gloire_bb]

They are clearly niche aircrafts that in all normal uses are worse than aircrafts of the same weight.

Same can be said about literally any additional weight on aircraft - lack of ejection seat can make them even better in normal uses, for example.
Military aircraft aren't built for normal uses in the first place, and normality is vulnerability in the first place.

Furthermore, all things should apply in real world, rather than only in theory. Like, as mentioned before, in principle it's always possible making better aircraft via removing VTOL weight and going away from balanced weight distribution.

In practice, world has finite resources, and best attack aircraft in the world is actually VTOL. Just because it was produced to a more successful and enduring specification, and built well.
On the opposite end, when even it is here(f-35b/a), we play with primary and secondary requirements. Is f-35b weaker than f-35a? Sort of.
Does it matter in most missions and even formations? Not really.
Does it make f-35b weaker v f-35a(or anything else) directly? Not at all, it literally doesn't matter.

 

[Atomicfrog]

Does it make f-35b weaker v f-35a(or anything else) directly? Not at all, it literally doesn't matter.

It will have less range... so yeah directly it is worse. Range and payload are real world variables and are worse for known VTOL. Best attack aircraft is VTOL ?, dont know what aircraft you are talking about.

But a vtol will be way better than any other aircrafts if you dont have a good landing strip available.

 

[Gloire_bb]

It will have less range... so yeah directly it is worse.

Fuel doesn't kill directly, and it can be refuelled. STOL aircraft can be based closer in the first place.

Range and payload are real world variables and are worse for known VTOL.

Can you realize that payload?
Again, basic modern example: actual F-35B users either don't have munitions over 1000 lb altogether, or only in token numbers.
If you don't use those, payload advantage is absolutely useless...

Best attack aircraft is VTOL ?

Are there tha many? Av-8b+