055 Large Destroyer Thread II

[charles18]

Effectively PLAN is already a 5 tier navy, considering the 054A production has been continuing until recently. They do not need another layer between their existing surface combatants. Maybe later they would introduce an even higher layer. I see even that speculative

China's GDP grew by over 15 times within the past 25 years. Assuming a military planner will procure weapons which are proportional to a nation's economic capacity No planner could have predicted China's staggering rise. This explains the PLA-navy's bizarre mix-match of weapon systems. For example, What Navy on this planet has a combination of 225 ton missile boats and 50,000 ton amphibious assault ships with EM catapults? Sometimes truth is stranger than fiction.

Anyways I think in the future as China's economy matures its navy, the surface combatant fleet, will eventually evolve into 3 tiers: frigates, destroyers, and cruisers.

 

[tamsen_ikard]

China's GDP grew by over 15 times within the past 25 years. Assuming a military planner will procure weapons which are proportional to a nation's economic capacity No planner could have predicted China's staggering rise. This explains the PLA-navy's bizarre mix-match of weapon systems. For example, What Navy on this planet has a combination of 225 ton missile boats and 50,000 ton amphibious assault ships with EM catapults? Sometimes truth is stranger than fiction.

Anyways I think in the future as China's economy matures its navy, the surface combatant fleet, will eventually evolve into 3 tiers: frigates, destroyers, and cruisers.

I don't think its about military planners being conservative. Geography and your opponents play a big factor. Because China's current geography of being surrounded by US vassals and US having such a big presence, China cannot fully focus on a blue water navy. The most likely battle China fights will be in the first island chain, which means Carriers are actually a liability in full scale war dominated by anti-ship missiles and drones.

Inside the first island Chain, these carriers could be sunk before they can make a difference. Moreover, if these ships want to fight in the open ocean of the pacific they need to pass the first island chain chokepoint in wartime, again a very risky proposition which could mean these carriers could be sitting out in war just like the German high seas fleet in ww1.

China still needs those 225 ton missile boats, provided they are modernized and able to carry hypersonics. They will provide a valuable attack vector within the first island chain.

 

[Michaelsinodef]

China's GDP grew by over 15 times within the past 25 years. Assuming a military planner will procure weapons which are proportional to a nation's economic capacity No planner could have predicted China's staggering rise. This explains the PLA-navy's bizarre mix-match of weapon systems. For example, What Navy on this planet has a combination of 225 ton missile boats and 50,000 ton amphibious assault ships with EM catapults? Sometimes truth is stranger than fiction.

Anyways I think in the future as China's economy matures its navy, the surface combatant fleet, will eventually evolve into 3 tiers: frigates, destroyers, and cruisers.

The 225 tons missile boats and the 50000 tons amphibious assault ship makes sense, as long as one actually looks at history year by year, and accordingly evaluate the platforms around their respective ywars of production.

The glaring thing is simply, that the economy and mic has grown so fast that it becomes so glaring.

 

[qwerty3173]

Look at the overall Chinese Navy surface fleet which has ship classes with a range of VLS numbers.

Type-054 Frigate. 32 VLS cells
Type-052D Destroyer. 64 VLS cells
Type-055 Large Destroyer. 112 VLS cells

It looks quite logical, with VLS numbers roughly doubling with each tier of warship.

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But let's suppose they were to design a new ship class with 96 VLS cells. Would they need 30 of these ships, which would justify an entirely new and separate ship class to support?

Remember that the Type-055 would only be about 20% more expensive, so why not just buy more Type-055 instead?

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You can actually throw the question back as to why the US Navy only has Arleigh Burkes with 96 VLS cells, and no other ships with VLS cells.

For many missions, an affordable Frigate with 32 cells is more than adequate, but they're only just building Frigates now.

So it is the US Navy which is odd and strange in not having a Frigate.

96 VLS for a brand new destroyer is likely from all the rumors out there, but so is the rumors about a new larger VLS system. The new design will probably be very close with the 055 on dimensions and tonnage. A speculated 950mm diameter VLS cell allows for quad packing HHQ9C and HHQ19 to achieve a ridiculous density of long range defense, and also allows HQ29 to become naval. New, larger and more powerful offensive missiles are also on the prototyping and experimenting pipeline.

 

[TK3600]

I don’t believe the Type 055 will become obsolete within the next 20 years. It was designed with upgrades in mind, ensuring relevance well into the 30-year mark. I expect the class to remain in service long-term, with total production reaching around 25 hulls, potentially including upgraded variants such as the Type 055A or 055B

Define obsolete. Having better ship design is not obsolete. China still keeps sovremenny class today, and with upgrade it is still very relevent. 055 cant be worse than that in 20 years.

 

[antiterror13]

Define obsolete. Having better ship design is not obsolete. China still keeps sovremenny class today, and with upgrade it is still very relevent. 055 cant be worse than that in 20 years.

obsolete here means not longer competitive

 

[AndrewS]

96 VLS for a brand new destroyer is likely from all the rumors out there, but so is the rumors about a new larger VLS system. The new design will probably be very close with the 055 on dimensions and tonnage. A speculated 950mm diameter VLS cell allows for quad packing HHQ9C and HHQ19 to achieve a ridiculous density of long range defense, and also allows HQ29 to become naval. New, larger and more powerful offensive missiles are also on the prototyping and experimenting pipeline.

Let's look at a requirement for a ship with 96 of a new larger 950mm VLS cell.

If I look at the volume required, that is more than the 112 Cells on the Type-055.
And if the requirement is missile defence with HHQ-19 or HQ-29, you would want a large hull for the radar and electricity requirements.

That implies the Type-055 hull is the minimum size for such a new ship.

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But thinking about it, would you need 96 such cells on a ship?

Perhaps they only need 48 of the new larger cells for ABM and offensive missiles, plus another 48 of the existing size?

This should occupy a similar volume and weight to the existing Type-055 VLS.

 

[00CuriousObserver]

Allegedly 055s for ETC. Source see watermark

 

[qwerty3173]

Let's look at a requirement for a ship with 96 of a new larger 950mm VLS cell.

If I look at the volume required, that is more than the 112 Cells on the Type-055.
And if the requirement is missile defence with HHQ-19 or HQ-29, you would want a large hull for the radar and electricity requirements.

That implies the Type-055 hull is the minimum size for such a new ship.

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But thinking about it, would you need 96 such cells on a ship?

Perhaps they only need 48 of the new larger cells for ABM and offensive missiles, plus another 48 of the existing size?

This should occupy a similar volume and weight to the existing Type-055 VLS.

Its just that the larger each cell is the more efficient the packing is, if you managed to solve the technical difficulties coming from larger individual cells. While each current 850mm cell can only fit 2 HQ9C or HQ19, a 950mm cell can fit 4, which means that actual missile count is far larger than before. Also, the current 055 is far from being an overloaded hull form like 052DL and Arleigh Burke mk3, fitting more into the ship is still highly viable.

 

[TheWanderWit]

A Type 052D successor likely won't have 96 cells and doesn't need to anyway. China's VLS is larger, and also uses frigates. If they are developing some larger 950mm VLS for their next-generation DDGs, it's likely an 052D successor would have 80-85 max, as it could fit more with less. Maybe even lower in the 70s. 80-85 950mm cells would equate to 181-193 Mk.41 VLS cells (if one Mk. 41 cell is 559mm), or 141-149 Mk. 41 VLS cells (if one Mk. 41 cell is 635mm; unsure of its exact diameter so I used these two).