JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread

[Miragedriver]

And plzzz do not call JF-17 a variant of Mig-21, don't insult the JF-17 by calling it a derivative of Mig-21, show proof or else don't say it. Thanks

I have no wish to argue or to embroil myself in an augment. My, passing, comment was that the JF-17 was a "derivative" was that is continuation of the design propagation of aircraft design started with the Super-7. Not that the JF-17 is a J-7 with new wings, etc…(that would be silly).

Sinodefence.com itself says that Chengdu continued the Super-7 program under just another name called FC-1. The objective remained the same, which to develop a replacement for the mig-19’s and 21’s in service

People who disagree can further argue with sinodefence.com.

 

[Miragedriver]

You have to admit that the concept is still pretty cool though! The chin-mounted inlet and streamlined shape of the J-7MF kinda reminds me of the J-10. Too bad they didn't even build a single prototype.

Yes I agree. It would be a nice final ending to an incredibly versatile aircraft life. Probable would be very inexpensive to construct and maintain.

 

[lcloo]

Correct me if I am wrong, J-7MF was a tri-party development project involving Pakistan, China and USA. The aim was to develop an air craft based on J-7, specificlly for Pakistan requiremnt. The project was stopped due to American pulling out, and was stalled for many years.

The Chinese and Pakistani later restarted the continuation of their effort, an evolution of the abandoned J-7MF, probably with input from Pakistan with their aerial battle experience and some feauture of F-16, and the Chinese engineering background.

I believe why JF-17 could be developed in such a short time is because the groundworks have been done based on J-7MF project.

The result is JF-17. Though having some blood lineage from J-7MF, it is completely different in shape, avionic, wing and engine. The similarity is the size.

As for why PLAA is not using FC-1/ JF-17, I think they have no need for this plane as the current air craft types have meet their needs, wherelse JF-17 was built specifically for Pakistan's need. It is 50:50 cost sharing joint venture but not sure wether China is obliged to buy.

 

[Lion]

Correct me if I am wrong, J-7MF was a tri-party development project involving Pakistan, China and USA. The aim was to develop an air craft based on J-7, specificlly for Pakistan requiremnt. The project was stopped due to American pulling out, and was stalled for many years.

The Chinese and Pakistani later restarted the continuation of their effort, an evolution of the abandoned J-7MF, probably with input from Pakistan with their aerial battle experience and some feauture of F-16, and the Chinese engineering background.

I believe why JF-17 could be developed in such a short time is because the groundworks have been done based on J-7MF project.

The result is JF-17. Though having some blood lineage from J-7MF, it is completely different in shape, avionic, wing and engine. The similarity is the size.

As for why PLAA is not using FC-1/ JF-17, I think they have no need for this plane as the current air craft types have meet their needs, wherelse JF-17 was built specifically for Pakistan's need. It is 50:50 cost sharing joint venture but not sure wether China is obliged to buy.

I think FC-1 fast development is due to experience in developing J-10. Not J-7MF previous experience. And I strongly believe China did have access to PAF F-16A and input some similiarity and Pakistan AF pilot advise into making FC-1. The wingspan is a good indication. As for the LERX was only added into on the 4th prototype.

 

[tphuang]

I have no wish to argue or to embroil myself in an augment. My, passing, comment was that the JF-17 was a "derivative" was that is continuation of the design propagation of aircraft design started with the Super-7. Not that the JF-17 is a J-7 with new wings, etc…(that would be silly).

Sinodefence.com itself says that Chengdu continued the Super-7 program under just another name called FC-1. The objective remained the same, which to develop a replacement for the mig-19’s and 21’s in service

People who disagree can further argue with sinodefence.com.

you did nothing wrong. You just hit a sensitive spot for many members of this forum. It's like if you tell people that J-10 is just Lavi, that would get a lot of people upset here. No worries.

To put simply, you can't really compare the maneuverability of 3rd generation to 4th generation planes. No matter how much electronics you put on J-7, it's restricted by that airframe. J-7MF was a completely updated design. It was done as a possible export option for CAC.

 

[siegecrossbow]

you did nothing wrong. You just hit a sensitive spot for many members of this forum. It's like if you tell people that J-10 is just Lavi, that would get a lot of people upset here. No worries.

To put simply, you can't really compare the maneuverability of 3rd generation to 4th generation planes. No matter how much electronics you put on J-7, it's restricted by that airframe. J-7MF was a completely updated design. It was done as a possible export option for CAC.

Well said. However I still prefer seeing J-7MF to the J-7 E that got introduced in the 90s just from an aesthetics point of view (as well as room for a bigger radar). Is it possible for older J-7s to get a major rehaul so they could be updated to something similar to the J-7MF?

 

[Londo Molari]

The Pakistanis order for 42 more aircraft was for a whooping $800million, or roughly $19 million an aircraft (plus supplies, support equipment, etc..).

Where is this from? I was under the impression JF-17 is costing $10m-$15m per unit, while J-10 is $30m. That makes the JF-17 much more affordable, although admittedly less capable than the J-10.

Also, JF-17 was designed from the ground up with the intention of allowing Pakistan and other export customers to take over as much of the production process as they could manage. While J-10 was designed specifically for China. Which answers your other question about why China does not buy JF-17's.

On the other extreme you could purchase some J-7E at 6 million or (my personal favorite) the J-7MF, with the underbelly intake and extra hard points for 8 million plus. You could say that the J-7MF is comparable to the JF-17.

No, the JF-17 is far superior. For Pakistan, JF-17 is the most bang for their buck.

 

[siegecrossbow]

Looks like the WS-13 has been flight tested woot!:

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China and Pakistan Push Chengdu JF-17 Fighter for Export
By: Chris Pocock

August 6, 2010
Military Aircraft, Defense



Two Chengdu JF-17 Thunders from the Pakistan air force’s No. 26 Squadron made the type’s first international appearance at the Farnborough air show. (Photo: Chris Pocock)

In the same week that the Chengdu JF-17 Thunder combat aircraft made its international debut at the Farnborough airshow, the product of this co-development between China and Pakistan was offered to Indonesia. The Pakistan Defence Minister signed a defense cooperation agreement with his Indonesian counterpart in Jakarta. The list of countries that the Sino-Pakistan joint venture is targeting for sales is expanding fast: it reportedly also includes Azerbaijan, Bangladesh, Congo, Egypt, Iran, Nigeria, the Philippines, Sri Lanka, Sudan, Turkey, Venezuela and Zimbabwe.

At Farnborough, joint-venture partners Catic and PAC described the JF-17 as a multi-role light fighter with an “outstanding performance-to-cost ratio.” The two aircraft on display were ferried to Farnborough but did not fly during the show, and officials were reluctant to allow journalists into the cockpit to view the three multifunction displays plus head-up display, HOTAS (hands on throttle and stick) and other avionics. The aircraft were shown with PL-5II IR-guided air-to-air missiles on wingtip rails and ferry tanks on the centerline and inner wing stations, leaving the outer wing stations unloaded. Mockups of five Chinese stores were displayed next to the aircraft: a C802A anti-ship missile; an SD-10A active radar-guided air-to-air missile; an LS-6 glide bomb; a WMD-7 targeting pod; and a KG300G electronic warfare pod.

Program officials said that a development JF-17 is now flying in China with a Chinese-developed engine, presumably the WS-13 Taishan. All other JF-17s are powered by the Russian-supplied RD-93 turbofan. On the eve of Farnborough, a Russian newspaper reported the opposition of Sukhoi and MiG director-general Mikhail Pogosian to a further sale of RD-93s to China because the JF-17 is competing with the MiG-29 for export sales. At the show, however, Russian officials, including Pogosian, played down this concern.

 

[challenge]

RD-93 vs. GE F-414,which is better?

 

[A.Man]

RD-93 vs. GE F-414,which is better?

This is not an argument.