Ask anything Thread

ACuriousPLAFan

Brigadier
Registered Member
Does anyone know what the aircraft makeup of the various carriers will look like? Just saw in the J-15T thread that all J-15Ts for all three carriers have been fulfilled (3x24) but what are the other aircraft that make up each Carrier Air Wing? Also what could a potential Type 004 Carrier air wing look like?

We don't exactly know for sure, other than referring the US carrier air wings (CVWs) of the Nimitz and Ford CVNs and make some rough projections. Though, I suppose that it wouldn't hurt much to make some educated guesses.



But before that, some notes:

Note #1 - There would be three main categories, each representing PLAN carriers per the respective stages outlined in Project 048.

Note #2 - It should be noted that the following guesses did not take U(C)AVs into account, hence the actual CVW arrangements on PLAN CV/CVNs in the future will differ considerably from what have been tabulated below.



Category #1 - ~60000-ton CVs (i.e. Liaoning and Shandong):

1x J-15T squadron (10 - 12 units) - fighters
1x J-35 squadron (10 - 12 units) - fighters
1x J-15DT squadron (4 - 6 units) - EW aircraft
1x Z-18J squadron (4 units) - AEW helicopters
1x Z-18F or Z-20F squadron (4 units) - ASW helicopters
1x Z-9C or Z-20J squadron (4 units) - transport/SAR helicopters

It should be noted that the aforementioned arrangement is assumed to hold true for the 2020s and 2030s (and that Shandong is to be retrofitted with the same J-35 operability as Liaoning in the near future).

Category #2 - ~80000-ton CVs (i.e. Fujian and her probable (half-)sister ship):

Stage 1 (~2020s)Stage 2 (~2030s)No. of aircrafts per squadron
J-15T fighters2x squadrons1x squadron10 - 12
J-35 fighters1x squadron2x squadrons10 - 12
J-15DT EW aircrafts1x squadron1x squadron4 - 6
KJ-600 AEW aircrafts1x squadron1x squadron~4
KY-600(?) transport aircraftsN/A1x squadron~2
Z-18F or Z-20F ASW helicopters1x squadron1x squadron~6
Z-9C or Z-20J transport/SAR helicopters1x squadron1x squadron~6

It should be noted that Fujian wasn't designed with the operation of carrier-based 6th-gen fighters (a.k.a. J-XDH from now on) in mind, hence she must undergo retrofitting works before she has the capability to operate J-XDHs. Here, it is assumed that both Fujian and her probable (half-)sister ship have the same limitations and won't be undergoing such retrofits until the mid/late-2030s or even early-2040s.

Category #3 - ~100000-ton CVs/CVNs (i.e. 004/005 and beyond):

Stage 1 (~2030s)Stage 2 (~2040s)No. of aircrafts per squadron
J-15T fighters1x squadronN/A10 - 12
J-35 fighters2x squadrons2x squadrons10 - 12
J-XDH fighters1x squadron2x squadrons10 - 12
J-15DT EW aircrafts1x squadron1x squadron6 - 8
KJ-600 AEW aircrafts1x squadron1x squadron4 - 6
KY-600(?) transport aircrafts1x squadron1x squadron~3
Z-18F or Z-20F ASW helicopters1x squadron1x squadron~6
Z-9C or Z-20J transport/SAR helicopters1x squadron1x squadron~6

It should be noted that here, it is assumed that the J-15Ts would gradually be phased out of PLAN service starting in the early-2040s, with its position and roles onboard the CV/CVNs taken over by the J-XDHs. However, it is anticipated that J-15Ts could still be serving with the older CVs in the PLAN until the early/mid-2050s.
 
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TheWanderWit

New Member
Registered Member
Does the PLA Navy have land attack missile capabilities?
Yes, 055s and 052Ds have land attack capabilities as they use a land-attack variant I believe of the YJ-18. I'm sure YJ-21s can also be used in a land attack mode. As for other ships like the 054A, not really, but technically some 054As with a newer version of the YJ-82s can be used in a land-attack mode, but the likelihood of them being used for that role is little to none depending on circumstances.

The YJ-62 on the 052Cs possibly has land-attack capability, but I'm not too sure. SSNs like the 093B can do land-attack missions, and I'd assume maybe the older 093s and some SSKs (?) like the 039C can from its torpedo tubes, but those are more for anti-ship missions. But for primarily land-attack missions from surface ships, it would come from 052Ds/055s and SSNs like the 093B/095, but land-attack isn't a major mission for the PLAN compared to AAW/ASuW/ASW.
 

Wrought

Senior Member
Registered Member
Yes, 055s and 052Ds have land attack capabilities as they use a land-attack variant I believe of the YJ-18. I'm sure YJ-21s can also be used in a land attack mode. As for other ships like the 054A, not really, but technically some 054As with a newer version of the YJ-82s can be used in a land-attack mode, but the likelihood of them being used for that role is little to none depending on circumstances.

The YJ-62 on the 052Cs possibly has land-attack capability, but I'm not too sure. SSNs like the 093B can do land-attack missions, and I'd assume maybe the older 093s and some SSKs (?) like the 039C can from its torpedo tubes, but those are more for anti-ship missions. But for primarily land-attack missions from surface ships, it would come from 052Ds/055s and SSNs like the 093B/095, but land-attack isn't a major mission for the PLAN compared to AAW/ASuW/ASW.

Did we ever get confirmation of CJ-10 integration with UVLS? I vaguely remember some rumours about that.
 

Lethe

Captain
We've all read and dismissed the mostly American propaganda that PLAN is the world's largest navy, courtesy of the brilliant innovation of counting 022 missile boats alongside Nimitz-class supercarriers. Yet even using more sensible criteria, we are indeed approaching something of a crossover point, at least insofar as the surface combatant inventory is concerned:

Major Surface Combatants.png

Projected changes between today and end 2029:

PLAN:
New ships: 6 055s, 9 052Ds (including DDG-126 Heze which is to be commissioned imminently), 6 054As.
Retirements: 2 052s.

USN
New ships: 10 Burkes, 1 Zumwalt, 1 Freedom, 1 Constellation.
Retirements: 9 Ticos, 5 Burkes, 1 Freedom, 2 Independence.

For USN I am using the March 2024 shipbuilding plan available
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, though I have truncated Constellation numbers from that document owing to
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that FFG-62 is now not anticipated to deliver until 2029, and subsequent units have yet to be laid down. The greatest uncertainty over the period is just how many of the ships that USN has penciled in for retirement will actually be permitted to retire.

For PLAN there is of course some uncertainty at both ends of the spectrum. I have only included ships for which there is currently visual evidence of construction.
 
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cornerodriguez

New Member
Registered Member
Todos hemos leído y descartado la propaganda, mayoritariamente estadounidense, de que la PLAN es la armada más grande del mundo, gracias a la brillante innovación de contar con lanchas lanzamisiles 022 junto con los superportaaviones clase Nimitz . Sin embargo, incluso con criterios más sensatos, nos estamos acercando a un punto de inflexión, al menos en lo que respecta al inventario de combate de superficie.

View attachment 156032

Cambios proyectados entre hoy y finales de 2029:

PLAN:
Nuevos buques: 6 055, 9 052D (incluido el DDG-126 Heze , cuya entrada en servicio será inminente ), 6 054A.
Jubilaciones: 2.052 s.

Marina de Estados Unidos
Nuevos barcos: 10 Burkes, 1 Zumwalt, 1 Freedom, 1 Constellation.
Jubilaciones: 9 Ticos, 5 Burkes, 1 Freedom, 2 Independence.

Para la Armada de los Estados Unidos (USN), utilizo el plan de construcción naval de marzo de 2024, disponible
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. Sin embargo, he truncado las cifras de Constellation de ese documento debido a
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de que no se prevé la entrega del FFG-62 hasta 2029, y las unidades posteriores aún no se han puesto en grada. La mayor incertidumbre durante este período radica en cuántos de los buques que la USN tiene previstos para su retiro podrán ser retirados.

En el caso de PLAN, por supuesto, existe cierta incertidumbre en ambos extremos del espectro. Solo he incluido los barcos cuya construcción actualmente cuenta con evidencia visual

We've all read and dismissed the mostly American propaganda that PLAN is the world's largest navy, courtesy of the brilliant innovation of counting 022 missile boats alongside Nimitz-class supercarriers. Yet even using more sensible criteria, we are indeed approaching something of a crossover point, at least insofar as the surface combatant inventory is concerned:

View attachment 156032

Projected changes between today and end 2029:

PLAN:
New ships: 6 055s, 9 052Ds (including DDG-126 Heze which is to be commissioned imminently), 6 054As.
Retirements: 2 052s.

USN
New ships: 10 Burkes, 1 Zumwalt, 1 Freedom, 1 Constellation.
Retirements: 9 Ticos, 5 Burkes, 1 Freedom, 2 Independence.

For USN I am using the March 2024 shipbuilding plan available
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
, though I have truncated Constellation numbers from that document owing to
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
that FFG-62 is now not anticipated to deliver until 2029, and subsequent units have yet to be laid down. The greatest uncertainty over the period is just how many of the ships that USN has penciled in for retirement will actually be permitted to retire.

For PLAN there is of course some uncertainty at both ends of the spectrum. I have only included ships for which there is currently visual evidence of construction.
Hi. Yes, that's American propaganda. I'm sure they won't use the 022s in case of conflict. They'll leave them in the anchorages. Hahaha.
Nor will the entire fleet of "sea militiamen" be used, nor will the civilian ro-ro
 
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Racek49

New Member
Registered Member
We've all read and dismissed the mostly American propaganda that PLAN is the world's largest navy, courtesy of the brilliant innovation of counting 022 missile boats alongside Nimitz-class supercarriers. Yet even using more sensible criteria, we are indeed approaching something of a crossover point, at least insofar as the surface combatant inventory is concerned:

View attachment 156032

Projected changes between today and end 2029:

PLAN:
New ships: 6 055s, 9 052Ds (including DDG-126 Heze which is to be commissioned imminently), 6 054As.
Retirements: 2 052s.

USN
New ships: 10 Burkes, 1 Zumwalt, 1 Freedom, 1 Constellation.
Retirements: 9 Ticos, 5 Burkes, 1 Freedom, 2 Independence.

For USN I am using the March 2024 shipbuilding plan available
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
, though I have truncated Constellation numbers from that document owing to
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
that FFG-62 is now not anticipated to deliver until 2029, and subsequent units have yet to be laid down. The greatest uncertainty over the period is just how many of the ships that USN has penciled in for retirement will actually be permitted to retire.

For PLAN there is of course some uncertainty at both ends of the spectrum. I have only included ships for which there is currently visual evidence of construction.
Of course, it is very important how many the US can deploy on the Pacific battlefield and how many it must leave in the Atlantic. And the mandatory involvement of its allies in the event of a conflict is currently under discussion.
 

zyklon

Junior Member
Registered Member
I have to say, I feel that the naval build-up has been disappointing of lately in a country that has a massive world-class building capability with 41 Trillion PPP GDP economy.

1) No new Type 055. Still 8 active. We have no idea of what the actual F is going on and why does it take such long time to commission number 9 and 10. Should have finished up number 11 and 12 as well with additional 4 being built in advanced stages. Should be 16 active any moment now - or by next year at the latest, but that is clearly not the case.

2) Type 052D. How many are active now? It seems that those 5 we saw being built at the same time (in advanced stages) are taking forever. Pump them out FFS. Should have between 35 - 40 active Type 052D and 052DL.

3) Should have finalized that new super cruiser I read about last year. Start building one, very soon.

4) Frigates. Still standing at two Type 054B. AFAIK, no new Bs are being built, but a few more As from what I understand? Generally, what the hell is going on in frigate area? We need sausage pumping style here as were in regards to numbers. You can't just not build anything whilst the enemies that target China are building stuff themselves.

5) Diesel submarines. I cannot even express how disappointed I am in this area when it comes to numbers. Why isn't there like twice the number of Type 039C compared as it is now? Improved Kilos and Songs should be replaced soon, no? Or?

Then there is the mini-nuke sub, Type 041. What's going on here?

6) Whilst 093B is great and it's a very solid progress, we're still waiting for Type 095, and type 096 (which needs to replace type 094). Either way, just f-ing start building MORE. Whichever it is - either more 093B or 095. Just build more, because enemies are building as well.

7) Why the F isn't there 5th and 6th Type 075 or 2nd Type 076 in advanced stages of construction?

8) Type 071. Whilst it is good to have 8, could have added at least another 4 here. Maybe "Improved" 071. Don't see the poing why it stopped at exactly 8.

9) No new support, logistics ships that are very large and modern, such as Type 901. Although I can see that there are several 903A being built, but still Type 901 should be built as well.

The only exciting thing going on for the navy as of now seems to be putting Fujian into service (along with naval J-35) and building the new carrier which will take its time. But besides that, there is so much lack of new commisioned units.

Compared to the Air Force which is very impressive and we are getting spoiled latery with J-35, J-36 and J-50 and other type of upgraded J-20, KJ-600, KJ-3000, and other type of aircraft and missiles.

But with navy, there is some strange thing going on. Frigates should be out like sausage production along with diesel SSK submarines such as Type 039C and that "mini-nuke" Type 041. Literally as when Type 022 missile boats and Type 056 where produced back in the day.

Word of advice: you might want to dig into how the PLAN is recruiting, training and retaining its officers and sailors.

Just because China has the industrial capacity to crank out frigates, destroyers and flattops like no other country does not mean there's sufficient trained and experienced manpower for crewing every hull that has been launched by the PLAN, never mind launched by or transferred to the CCG.

That too is very much a generational effort.

Moreover, keep in mind that sailors got wives and kids too. If you send them out to sea too frequently, they're going to leave the naval service for what are often more lucrative opportunities in the private sector.
 

tamsen_ikard

Senior Member
Registered Member
We've all read and dismissed the mostly American propaganda that PLAN is the world's largest navy, courtesy of the brilliant innovation of counting 022 missile boats alongside Nimitz-class supercarriers. Yet even using more sensible criteria, we are indeed approaching something of a crossover point, at least insofar as the surface combatant inventory is concerned:

View attachment 156032

Projected changes between today and end 2029:

PLAN:
New ships: 6 055s, 9 052Ds (including DDG-126 Heze which is to be commissioned imminently), 6 054As.
Retirements: 2 052s.

USN
New ships: 10 Burkes, 1 Zumwalt, 1 Freedom, 1 Constellation.
Retirements: 9 Ticos, 5 Burkes, 1 Freedom, 2 Independence.

For USN I am using the March 2024 shipbuilding plan available
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
, though I have truncated Constellation numbers from that document owing to
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
that FFG-62 is now not anticipated to deliver until 2029, and subsequent units have yet to be laid down. The greatest uncertainty over the period is just how many of the ships that USN has penciled in for retirement will actually be permitted to retire.

For PLAN there is of course some uncertainty at both ends of the spectrum. I have only included ships for which there is currently visual evidence of construction.
I don't think even counting Major surface ships is a good method since it counts small ships like type 054A as same as a Burke.

US has much bigger destroyers in the Burkes. Even a Type 052D is not an equal of a Burke due to smaller VLS count and smaller displacement.


A better method maybe counting VLS/slanted launchers of all major ships. Another good method will be count total displacement of destroyers and frigates in both navies. US is still ahead on these things.

Another bigger advantage US has is its VLS cell missile variety. They have SM-2,3,6 for Air and missile defense. China only has HQ-9. They also have quad packed missiles ability, which China also lacks.
 
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