JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread

[tphuang]

Re: JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread 2009

interesting you mentioned K-8, since that illustrates this point quite well.

The first flight with Honeywell engine took place in 1990. And then they had some further testing done and pre-production variants delivered.

The first flight with AI-25TLK didn't take place until December 1994 and it took until late 1998 before they actually certified it for K-8 to join PLAAF

The first flight with WS-11 took place in December 1998 and it took until 2003 before they certified it for K-8 to join PLAAF.

That's why L-15 is causing so much headache right now. Because it takes a good 8 to 9 years before they can completely indigenize a foreign engine and sort out all of the problems and have it fully tested and certified on L-15.

 

[Lion]

Re: JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread 2009

interesting you mentioned K-8, since that illustrates this point quite well.

The first flight with Honeywell engine took place in 1990. And then they had some further testing done and pre-production variants delivered.

The first flight with AI-25TLK didn't take place until December 1994 and it took until late 1998 before they actually certified it for K-8 to join PLAAF

The first flight with WS-11 took place in December 1998 and it took until 2003 before they certified it for K-8 to join PLAAF.

That's why L-15 is causing so much headache right now. Because it takes a good 8 to 9 years before they can completely indigenize a foreign engine and sort out all of the problems and have it fully tested and certified on L-15.

I agree the hazzle of putting another engine to make it fully operational...
But 8-9years is abit too long. One must remember that time, China technology is still backward but currently China has advanced.

Just look at development of FC-1 compare to J-10 which the experience absorbed from J-10 into FC-1 fasten it into an incredible pace.

 

[tphuang]

Re: JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread 2009

I'd give you that Hongdu is kind of slow, so the 9 year it took from when they first got license production for AI-25 to have it progress to the stage of production certification and mass equipping K-8s was a little longer than what CAC would take. Unfortunately, L-15 is also developed by Hongdu. If we say that WS-10A is about 4 years ahead of WS-13 in terms of development schedule (it's about right if we compare long endurance testing completion of early 2006 to early 2010). And if WS-10A receives production certification later this year (not too unreasonable if we compare to WS-9 with JH-7A), then WS-13 would probably be qualified for design certification by sometimes in 2011 and have production certification by 2014. Now going forward, I'm hoping that they actually learnt something from WS-10A's production process that this time line would shrink, but who knows really.

 

[Zahid]

Re: JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread 2009

Just curious. How much experience does Pakistan have in making modifications to the airframe to put in a new engine, and flight testing it? Did Pakistan ever do this for any of their planes?

If not..then I don't see how Pakistan can do it if CAC and China is unwilling.

I think Pakistan will be dependent on China and Russia for it's engines for a long long long time because no nation will give another nation it's secrets to building a modern turbofan engine.

This is flame-baiting. The last JF17 / FC1 thread was closed when you posted comments just like this to start a flurry of exchanges that led to mods shutting the thread down.

Mods, pls take note.

 

[flyboy2008]

Re: JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread 2009

This is flame-baiting. The last JF17 / FC1 thread was closed when you posted comments just like this to start a flurry of exchanges that led to mods shutting the thread down.

Mods, pls take note.

Nothing I said can be construed as flame baiting.

You claimed that even without CAC/China, Pakistan will go forward and integrate a Western engine into the JF17.

I ask very fairly, has Pakistan ever had any experience doing this?

You should be responsible enough to stand behind your claims instead of running whenever you are challenged to prove your assertions.

 

[Bismark]

Re: JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread 2009

Information for all, last time (which is 3 months back) i had a chat with one of JF-17 project manager and he told me they will not going to change the engine as for now.

 

[Deino]

Re: JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread 2009

Information for all, last time (which is 3 months back) i had a chat with one of JF-17 project manager and he told me they will not going to change the engine as for now.

Nice ... any additional info about a possible twin-seater, the rumoured CAS-optimised (as noted in Huitong's site) or the current PLAAF's standing to it ???

Cheers, Deino

 

[plawolf]

Re: JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread 2009

The PLAAF is even more unlikely to adopt the JF17 now what with the late stage the J10B and J11B are at as well as persistant rumours that the JXX is close to first flight means they have too many other projects demanding resources to justify the substantial investment a JF17 buy would represent.

With Pakistan already committed and Egypt expressing interest, there is even less reason for the PLA to buy the type since its already ok with exports and will likely get other orders if the Egyptians also commit.

 

[Zahid]

Re: JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread 2009

Nothing I said can be construed as flame baiting.

You claimed that even without CAC/China, Pakistan will go forward and integrate a Western engine into the JF17.

I ask very fairly, has Pakistan ever had any experience doing this?

You should be responsible enough to stand behind your claims instead of running whenever you are challenged to prove your assertions.

I never asserted that Pakistan would or could change the engine on its own. You are just itching to start a war of words.

 

[MastanKhan]

Re: JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread 2009

That is logically flawed. The JF-17 being able to fit a RD-93 clone does not mean the plane can fit "any other engine". Furthermore, a fighter jet is not your desktop computer where you can pull out an old video card and put in a new one. The new engine that gets swapped in has to have exactly the same diameter, similar thrust, and mass, which excludes 99% of "any other engine".

Hi,

It is logically flawed if the fighter plane was designed around an engine as it used to be. The Jf is a modular design from the begining---it was kept in mind for this plane may have to switch engines right from gitgo---and not with too many modifications to the structure.

The british did it to the phantoms---the israelis did it to the mirage---the so africans did it to I believe the cheetah or the mirage---and those modifictaions are not beyond kamra trust me on that---.