JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread

[taimikhan]

Re: JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread 2009

Wasnt Pakistan supposed to be getting some second hand reconditioned F16s from the USA as part of their Hi Low mix?

PAF already got 14 F-16s of older blocks through EDA from US. 18 newer Blk 52s would be in service by next year start.

Pakistan has requested and is in negotiations for further F-16s under the EDA program from the US. lets see if it bears any fruits in the future.

 

[MastanKhan]

Re: JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread 2009

With JF-17 on the other hand, not only it is simpler, China and Pakistan are more than willing to help set up repair and maintenance facilities, and production lines for spare parts, or even entire aircraft, and JF-17 was designed with manufacture in third world countries in mind.

Therefore, we can imagine that in a future conflict between two third world nations, the side with JF-17 will suffer higher losses than the side with more advanced fighters at the first few days , but after that, when the advanced fighters are stuck on the ground due to minor problems that their operators can't rectify, JF-17's will still be able to take to the air, again, and again, and again.

Hi,

Very interesting---.

I have also read that the spool time for the engine is much shorter for the JF 17---it is ready to take off in a very short time---as compared to its adversary su 30 sitting at srinagar air base---the flight time from chaklala / kamra is around 10 to 15 min at the most, barely giving the opposition enough time to get its plane in the air---does that sound right!

 

[Munir]

Re: JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread 2009

as I said before, when you put another engine in there, that shifts the center of gravity for the plane. And even if the dimensions and weight are same as in the case of Taihang to AL-31, you need to do a lot of testing, because the engines don't behave the same. It doesn't matter if it can be fit in there or not. Do people not read before they comment on things?

Tphuang,
You are correct on that but that doesn't mean one cannot change engine. If you know a little more about how CG is controlled during flight (shifting fuel from one to other tank) or when CG is set after first production test then you might understand that is is possible... You can add an engine as long as you can control the gravity so it is kept in certain area. And it is better to reduce weight then add power... So probably they will try to do that before jumping to a new testing run.

Mirage F1 in SA had an engine change... Phantom had it... F16 has two alternatives... PW or GE... I bet J10 and FC1 can do it as long as you can control it. Surely you do need testing but that is obvious.

 

[tphuang]

Re: JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread 2009

Doesn't seem to matter what I say here, the Pakistanis think it is a simple change or can be done easily. There seems to be some kind of love with anything Western. Okay, well if they end up putting a Western engine on JF-17, good for you. But I don't think it makes sense to do it.

 

[hanzo]

Re: JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread 2009

100% agree with tphuang

 

[Zahid]

Re: JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread 2009

as I said before, when you put another engine in there, that shifts the center of gravity for the plane. And even if the dimensions and weight are same as in the case of Taihang to AL-31, you need to do a lot of testing, because the engines don't behave the same. It doesn't matter if it can be fit in there or not. Do people not read before they comment on things?

Your point about issues regarding change of engine is well-noted and the logic is well understood.

PAF, based on past experience can not be expected to be complacent about supply of engines unless they are from China. I would like to ask if WS13 were to be available, would CAC be told to ensure that JF17 flies with it? If the answer is in affirmative then certainly you can substitute any other engine. China may not be all out in support for such a change, CAC may be luke-warm about it, but if PAF wants it done, it shall be done! Nevermind if the aircraft needs to go through a fresh round of testing. If the need for such a change is perceived to be great enough, then certainly it would be done. There is no technological barrier to such a change. Let us leave it to future to see what direction JF17 development takes.

 

[Munir]

Re: JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread 2009

To me the main question remains... Is it worth to add a more powerful engine cause it is defined as a cheap fighter? It will not near FC20. Neither is it comparable with J11. A better plane needs more engines, more fuel, bigger wings and a lot more room for avionics. FC20 will be next step and after that we still have a decade to make something together with China.

 

[flyboy2008]

Re: JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread 2009

Your point about issues regarding change of engine is well-noted and the logic is well understood.

PAF, based on past experience can not be expected to be complacent about supply of engines unless they are from China. I would like to ask if WS13 were to be available, would CAC be told to ensure that JF17 flies with it? If the answer is in affirmative then certainly you can substitute any other engine. China may not be all out in support for such a change, CAC may be luke-warm about it, but if PAF wants it done, it shall be done! Nevermind if the aircraft needs to go through a fresh round of testing. If the need for such a change is perceived to be great enough, then certainly it would be done. There is no technological barrier to such a change. Let us leave it to future to see what direction JF17 development takes.

Just curious. How much experience does Pakistan have in making modifications to the airframe to put in a new engine, and flight testing it? Did Pakistan ever do this for any of their planes?

If not..then I don't see how Pakistan can do it if CAC and China is unwilling.

I think Pakistan will be dependent on China and Russia for it's engines for a long long long time because no nation will give another nation it's secrets to building a modern turbofan engine.

 

[Engineer]

Re: JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread 2009

I would like to ask if WS13 were to be available, would CAC be told to ensure that JF17 flies with it? If the answer is in affirmative then certainly you can substitute any other engine.

That is logically flawed. The JF-17 being able to fit a RD-93 clone does not mean the plane can fit "any other engine". Furthermore, a fighter jet is not your desktop computer where you can pull out an old video card and put in a new one. The new engine that gets swapped in has to have exactly the same diameter, similar thrust, and mass, which excludes 99% of "any other engine".

 

[Munir]

Re: JF-17/FC-1 Fighter Aircraft thread 2009

If a customer wants it (and willing to pay) then I doubt China or the engine seller (if allowed to sell) will make huge problem out of it. K8 is sold as ws11 (k8w) and with honeywell. I bet fc1/JF17 is not extremely tight designed for one engine in mind. Comparing it with computers is simplistic but it can be done.