American Economics Thread

chgough34

Junior Member
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Only if you're selectively blind. For the 3rd time:
From @AndrewS post:
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The U.S. isn’t the UK and immigration isn’t random -
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The American Community Survey is really the only source of data on specific Asian national origin groupings resident in the United States (since it otherwise is just the “Asian” category) and that’s been explored already.
 
Because most “Asian” data isn’t disaggregated so trying to extrapolate Chinese from “Asian” is quite difficult

Only if you're selectively blind. For the 3rd time:

Again, why do we need to compare the relative achievement of different subgroups of Asian Americans??? What value does that bring to the discussion? Does that data help us predict the economic trajectory of their home nations? It does not, because as has been mentioned, the population of immigrants to the US/UK do not constitute a representative sample for the population of their home nations. Does it matter for the US (or UK) economy whether or not Chinese immigrants or Indian immigrants are more successful academically/economically? If it does, I'm not seeing it.
 

chgough34

Junior Member
Registered Member
Iranian-Americans would probably be up there as well... Though in terms for cultural disposition for academic excellence, I'd say there tends to be more cultural "baggage" with Indian-Americans than with most East Asian Americans. Which can get in the way of academic achievement in my opinion. Though, some of the smartest people I know in my personal life are Indian-Americans though. Honestly though I can't tell who's more disproportionatelly represented in high-paying jobs, high-achievement careers, East Asians or Indians.

Importantly, US Anti-Immigrant sentiments andr acism are almost never targeted at these high-peforming cohorts. Those tend to be extreme exceptions due to political or cultural circumstances.
Iranians are white per current census guidelines, but the courts were mostly in favor that they were white but they did have a split on whether Arabians/Syrians were white for purposes of the 1870 Naturalization Act - Dow v. United States, 226 F.145 (4th Cir. 1915), In Re Najour, 174 F. 735 (N.D.Ga. 1909), Ex Parte Mohriez, 54 F. Supp. 941 (D. Mass 1941), In Re Ellis, 179 F. 1002 (D. Ore. 1910) > yes they are white, but compare with In Re Ahmed Hussein, 48 F. Supp. 843 (E.D. Mich. 1942), Ex Parte Shahid, 205 F. 812 (E.D.S.C. 1913) -> no they aren’t
 

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
The U.S. isn’t the UK and immigration isn’t random -
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The American Community Survey is really the only source of data on specific Asian national origin groupings resident in the United States (since it otherwise is just the “Asian” category) and that’s been explored already.
That's a very poor excuse.

First of all, academic performance is not positively correlated with socio-economic status. Second generation immigrant students raised by poor first generation parents perform better on average than first generation (language issues) students and third generation (too confortable living in rich lifestyles provided by their second generation parents) students as well.
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Secondly, even though immigration is not completely random, it still results in the majority of immigrants coming in with much lower than average financial and educational background, which means that the majority of the Chinese coming in are not picked cream of the crop, but those who come to work menial jobs under the promise that such labor is more rewarding in the US than in China.
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Thirdly, the imaginary scenerio that all of the best Chinese were selected for and taken out of China (don't even see how you could come to such a conclusion seeing all the Chinese restaurant workers and small shop owners in the Chinatowns across the US) is already debunked by the fact that Chinese scores at international competitions trump the scores of even the Chinese populations of other countries like the US and UK, which are all heavily Chinese because even in their native environments, this is the best team that could be comprised from fair selection.

Lastly, your arguments basically all mount to escapism. 1. There's no direct data separating the ethnicities within the Asian race in the US so nothing can substitute for it and 2. even if there were, it's because immigration isn't random. I guess those 2 excuses make it impossible to prove anything, right? LOLOL You sound like the kid who keeps saying he lost a ball game cus his shoes were made weird and he's not used to the way the ground is paved on this court. The thing about excuses is that all of the excuses in the world, which you seem to have, couldn't combine to be worth a single positive result, which China's got mountain loads of.
 
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Franklin

Captain
Things are going swimmingly in the US
Retail sales are booming
Crime is down
Productivity gains from AI are just beginning

Retail sales are not booming. What they are measuring is how much people are spending in the retail space but they don't make the distinction between people having to pay more (inflation) vs people are able to buy more because of higher disposable income.

The evidence that retail sales are not doing well is the fact that both imports as well as manufacturing production are down. And small business sentiment is as low as during the pandemic and large numbers of big box retailers are missing their earnings estimates.
 

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
Again, why do we need to compare the relative achievement of different subgroups of Asian Americans??? What value does that bring to the discussion? Does that data help us predict the economic trajectory of their home nations? It does not, because as has been mentioned, the population of immigrants to the US/UK do not constitute a representative sample for the population of their home nations. Does it matter for the US (or UK) economy whether or not Chinese immigrants or Indian immigrants are more successful academically/economically? If it does, I'm not seeing it.

I recall seeing a black and white infographic which estimated the number of high-performing maths students by country.

It looked like China had more of these students than the rest of the world combined, IIRC

That would be relevant in terms of the raw human resources available to work with.
 
I recall seeing a black and white infographic which estimated the number of high-performing maths students by country.

It looked like China had more of these students than the rest of the world combined, IIRC

That would be relevant in terms of the raw human resources available to work with.
That is very relevant data, as that provides a metric for assessing the quality of the most important form of capital (human capital) for the innovation/technology driven economy of today and the future. On the other hand, it seems some people are engaged in a long-running debate specifically on comparing immigrant populations within the US/UK which I struggle to see the relevance of.
 

chgough34

Junior Member
Registered Member
Retail sales are not booming. What they are measuring is how much people are spending in the retail space but they don't make the distinction between people having to pay more (inflation) vs people are able to buy more because of higher disposable income.
Inflation was 0.3% MoM and retail sales increased 0.8%, and core retail sales increased 1.1% so even netting out inflation, you have MoM retail sales at 0.5% (6.2% at an annual rate), and core retail sales with a MoM of 0.8% (10% annualized)
The evidence that retail sales are not doing well is the fact that both imports as well as manufacturing production are down. And small business sentiment is as low as during the pandemic and large numbers of big box retailers are missing their earnings estimates.
Imports are down since COVID is over so households are shifting from buying goods (like treadmills and bread makers) to buying services such as yoga classes and meals out.
 

chgough34

Junior Member
Registered Member
Secondly, even though immigration is not completely random, it still results in the majority of immigrants coming in with much lower than average financial and educational background, which means that the majority of the Chinese coming in are not picked cream of the crop, but those who come to work menial jobs under the promise that such labor is more rewarding in the US than in China.
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Thirdly, the imaginary scenerio that all of the best Chinese were selected for and taken out of China (don't even see how you could come to such a conclusion seeing all the Chinese restaurant workers and small shop owners in the Chinatowns across the US) is already debunked
I’m not sure what the point of this exchange is anymore (outside of disputing the generalizability of using “Asian” and “Chinese” coextensively in a U.S. context) but on a factual basis - this is wrong. 19% of individuals in China have a tertiary education and even a smaller share would have a bachelors degree (
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) and 53% of China-born individuals resident in the U.S. have earned a bachelors degree or above (
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). Those that migrate to the U.S. are a positively selected cohort.

the two main streams by which individuals enter the United States are either from family reunification visas or from work visas. Refugee/asylee visas are the third class of greencards but are issued in very small numbers. Work visas require a bachelors degree in order for an employer to sponsor but family reunification visas are straight up blood line lotteries, so with most immigrant cohorts (China included), the income distribution of migrant outcomes is bimodal-ish with a mean higher than the U.S. population (
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)

Immigrants also tend to come from upper-middle income strata of their origin countries - this is because immigration is both costly - travel, attorneys, visa fees, living abroad, seeking information, etc - and because immigration is risky - moving to another country with uncertain legal status/outcomes and cultural unfamiliarity. (
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)
 
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