F-35 Joint Strike Fighter News, Videos and pics Thread

ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
Russia and China have already "teamed up", look at all the Flanker derivatives sold and manufactured in China just for starters, so Chinese and Russian co-operation go back to well before the advent of the Korean War... the Chinese have done rather well throwing in with the Russians in spite of their occasional and serious differences....

Lets stick to reality here, you are continuing to put words in my mouth, the Red Flag article was citing the incredible capacity that having a 5th Gen Air Force brings to the table, including enabling your 4Gens to fly their specific mission sets with specific and targeted assistance from US 5 Gens....

The 20 or so J-20's would certainly have their hands full against overwhelming numbers of F-22's, F-35A's, B's, and C's, its not clear that there are sufficient numbers of operational aircraft to "quarterback" a 4 Gen team offense against a "Red Team" outlined in the Red Flag exercises....

Neither your? nor my lack of specific knowledge? of every aspect of the modern battlefield, negate any aspect of the author's assessment of the real capability and capacity of the modern US and Western partners 5th Gen Air Forces to conduct an effective air campaign against our adversaries, whom are handicapped by a limited number of 5th Gen aircraft...

This Red Flag very specifically replicated robust numbers of very effective ground to air assets, as well as A2A assets in equal numbers, those assets were neutralized by a force of 8 F-35s, backed up by at least a two ship of F-22's.... which allowed the accompanying aircraft named in the article to effectively fly their missions....

not my opinion, but the accurate honest assessment by a "player" in the Red Flag exercises, I'd pay attention to the "players" on the field, I wouldn't worry about my opinions, LOL

LOL I didn't realise Russia and China sent their latest and highly classified equipment to Red Flag. My mistake. There is no door on planet Earth these F-35s cannot hold open for even mightier F-22s. Hahahaha please spare me this garbage. You don't know and you are spewing opinion... unfounded and poor conjecture at best. That is undeniable simply because you don't know what Russia and China are capable of and what they're incapable of. Only some stupid articles online and poorly formed conclusions.

Maybe US intelligence know for cEditertain but they aren't going to say a thing to anyone outside the close circles. If history is any indication, the US does not have any capability to fight and win a war with either Russia or China. If they did, they would have just like all the other examples of unprovoked and unnecessary US military adventurism. The US empire was built on warfare and continues to demonstrate that it's only capable of military solutions (see entire Middle East, every diplomatic failure re South America, and cooled off trade war... US is hurting as much as China and feeling the natural forces of a trade war). If it had the means to defeat Russia or China, there were plenty of opportunities to go to war, especially with Russia's recent actions in Georgia and Crimea, now Syria. The US hasn't followed through with these two because it understands how much it stands to lose if it has miscalculated. Every other instance of US military adventurism went ahead at moments notice, and often without overwhelming public and congressional approval. Truth is F-35 is excellent and the best addition to USAF and allied airforces, but it provides no certainty in helping US forces establish total military superiority over Russia or China.
 
Last edited:

ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
Russia and China have already "teamed up", look at all the Flanker derivatives sold and manufactured in China just for starters, so Chinese and Russian co-operation go back to well before the advent of the Korean War... the Chinese have done rather well throwing in with the Russians in spite of their occasional and serious differences....

Lets stick to reality here, you are continuing to put words in my mouth, the Red Flag article was citing the incredible capacity that having a 5th Gen Air Force brings to the table, including enabling your 4Gens to fly their specific mission sets with specific and targeted assistance from US 5 Gens....

The 20 or so J-20's would certainly have their hands full against overwhelming numbers of F-22's, F-35A's, B's, and C's, its not clear that there are sufficient numbers of operational aircraft to "quarterback" a 4 Gen team offense against a "Red Team" outlined in the Red Flag exercises....

Neither your? nor my lack of specific knowledge? of every aspect of the modern battlefield, negate any aspect of the author's assessment of the real capability and capacity of the modern US and Western partners 5th Gen Air Forces to conduct an effective air campaign against our adversaries, whom are handicapped by a limited number of 5th Gen aircraft...

This Red Flag very specifically replicated robust numbers of very effective ground to air assets, as well as A2A assets in equal numbers, those assets were neutralized by a force of 8 F-35s, backed up by at least a two ship of F-22's.... which allowed the accompanying aircraft named in the article to effectively fly their missions....

not my opinion, but the accurate honest assessment by a "player" in the Red Flag exercises, I'd pay attention to the "players" on the field, I wouldn't worry about my opinions, LOL

The F-35's addition to allied forces is an arguably a pointless addition to improving its military over Russia and China because these two nations can still defend their sovereignty and interests through their multiple means of MAD. This would be assuming F-35s do indeed grant overwhelming superiority to US forces. That's not to say improvements to USAF are pointless at all though. The F-35 is a part of the real game between these giants, staying ahead conventionally and forcing the others to invest huge amounts of national resources in catching up. Again the sophistication of F-35 and the above observations do not logically add up to omnipotence of F-35 over these other nations. At best it provides real deterrence for pursuing aggressive policies abroad in SCS, Syria etc.

In this dynamic, time is on Russia and China's side. As long as they maintain independence from western diktat, keep their society united and free of western attempts at destabilisation e.g. stoking separatist sentiments and creating anti-state propaganda. I cannot think of many reasons why Russia with all her land and resources and China with similar plus manpower, cannot become the foundations for a Eurasian future providing stability for the entire region and economic prosperity. China has undeniably done that over the last few decades. There is nothing really stopping them from replicating these achievements in central Asia, for the benefit of both Chinese and those living in Central Asia (currently the biggest terror and economic threats outside of USA for these two nations).
 
Last edited:

Gloire_bb

Captain
Registered Member
through their multiple means of MAD
MAD is bad protector of your interests.
Important last line, sure, but nothing other than that.
(low yield supporters shall get a special place in hell)

And honestly, for all cases other than an all-out exchange(massed henocidal simultaneous launches against each other), f-35 is an incredible asset.
Including all-out and/or limited nuclear war scenario, yes.
 

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
MAD is bad protector of your interests.
Important last line, sure, but nothing other than that.
(low yield supporters shall get a special place in hell)

And honestly, for all cases other than an all-out exchange(massed henocidal simultaneous launches against each other), f-35 is an incredible asset.
Including all-out and/or limited nuclear war scenario, yes.

yes, it was nick named MAD because it is the ultimate insanity,,,, the US has always been a peacemaker, and always will be... look at Canada and Mexico our closest neighbor's, we have lots and lot of legal immigration, and from the South, hoards of people wishing to enter the US by any means possible. (I don't blame them)

Point is our neighbors are NOT afraid of the US, they are our closest allies, the same cannot be said for Russia?? nor can it be said for China?? their neighbors are afraid, that's why their neighbors continue to appeal to the US for protection!

that's why our partners in the F-35 remain committed and part of our alliance, they TRUST us, now back to the F-35, its a wonderful little airplane that continues to grow in capability, it will draw our allies closer, and keep them safer, they will do more, with fewer aircraft... just ask the Israeli's, they're happy with their little bird.....
 
Feb 21, 2019
here's my reaction right after I've heard of a possibility of Turkey getting S-400:
Jul 19, 2017
I mean for Internet warriors it'd be cool to know 'kill ratios' LOL
now
Top US general in Europe: Don’t give Turkey F-35 if they buy Russian system
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

The top uniformed officer in NATO and the head of American forces in Europe said Tuesday that if Turkey goes through with its decision to
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
, he would recommend the Pentagon refuse to give Ankara its planned purchase of the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter.

Testifying in front of the Senate Armed Services Committee, Gen. Curtis Scaparrotti said it would be his “best military advice" that sales to Turkey of the F-35 be cut, should that nation buy the
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
.

“If they accept the S-400 to establish it in Turkey, there is first the issue that it’s not interoperable with NATO systems, nor is it interoperable inside of our integrated missile defense system. The second has to do with the F-35. It presents a problem to all of our aircraft, but specifically the F-35, I believe,” Scaparrotti said.

“My best military advice would be that we don’t then follow through with the F-35 — flying it or working with an ally that is working with Russian systems, particularly air defense systems, with one of our most advanced technological capabilities,” he added.

Concerns about Turkey’s decision to procure the S-400 are
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
. Officials in the U.S. and Europe believe Russia could gain a dangerous amount of information on the fifth-generation fighter should the systems be linked.

But Scaparrotti’s statement is particularly notable, as he also serves as supreme allied commander of NATO. His comments come weeks after the Munich Security Conference, where U.S. Vice President Mike Pence
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
“we will not stand idly by while NATO allies purchase weapons from our adversaries. We cannot ensure the defense of the West if our allies grow dependent on the East."

Turkey plans to buy 100 Joint Strike Fighters over the course of the program, and its first F-35 pilots have already begun training alongside U.S. pilots at Luke Air Force Base, Arizona. Turkish companies play a key industrial role in the program as one of the producers of the center fuselage and the maker of the cockpit display.

As a result of the planned S-400 procurement, the Pentagon launched a large study into whether it would be possible to remove Turkey from the F-35 industrial base.

Asked about the industrial base, the general said: “For them I would underscore this is a huge decision for Turkey. I have talked to them, as all of our leadership has.” He added that there is a team on the ground today talking with the Turks about the issue.

“I would hope they would reconsider this decision on the S-400, one system, but potentially forfeit many of the other systems and one of the most important systems we provide them," he said.

One such system besides the F-35 that could be impacted should Russia buy the S-400 is the Patriot missile defense system, which Turkey was
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
.
 

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
Feb 21, 2019
now
Top US general in Europe: Don’t give Turkey F-35 if they buy Russian system
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

As the Olde Preacher's used to say "Amen, and Amen!" NO WAY would anyone with a "pea brain" allow the Turks to operate the F-35 alongside the S-400... that would be giving away the store, and we damn well better not do that, I don't care who it "pisses off", won't be long and Erdogan will be begging the Russians to take those damned S-400's back, really, he's made a very bad move here, a smart man would stop and say?? "What the hell was I thinking", kinda like cheating on your wife, looks like fun, till you get caught! then the shit hits the fan!

With Obama or Hillary running the show, this would have been a huge screw up, I'd like to use the real terms, but I just can't, but you get my drift.....

and our NATO allies, in fact every F-35 partner ought to be burning down the phone lines to the Trumpster, NO WAY IN HELL!

Here is an area where I've got to question Mattis?? this is a NO brainer! "not only NO, but HELL NO!"

If the Turks were allowed to purchase the F-35, that damnable S-400 would "paint it" every time it flew over, from every angle", NO, NO, NO!

and take away those production plants, get em the hell out of there, this is a fundamental breach of trust on Erdogon's part, shut it down!

It's like being engaged to a woman who cheats on you, sorry Baby! its over!
 

gelgoog

Brigadier
Registered Member
MAD is bad protector of your interests.
Important last line, sure, but nothing other than that.
(low yield supporters shall get a special place in hell)

And honestly, for all cases other than an all-out exchange(massed henocidal simultaneous launches against each other), f-35 is an incredible asset.
Including all-out and/or limited nuclear war scenario, yes.

Is it? You won't use the F-35 to attack other nuclear powers. Other than the nuclear (peer) powers there is basically no one which has the numbers to fight the USAF or the USN. So what's the point?
Just see Israel attacking Syria as an example. They're attacking Syria with F-16s.
 

gelgoog

Brigadier
Registered Member
As the Olde Preacher's used to say "Amen, and Amen!" NO WAY would anyone with a "pea brain" allow the Turks to operate the F-35 alongside the S-400... that would be giving away the store, and we damn well better not do that, I don't care who it "pisses off", won't be long and Erdogan will be begging the Russians to take those damned S-400's back, really, he's made a very bad move here, a smart man would stop and say?? "What the hell was I thinking", kinda like cheating on your wife, looks like fun, till you get caught! then the shit hits the fan!

With Obama or Hillary running the show, this would have been a huge screw up, I'd like to use the real terms, but I just can't, but you get my drift.....

and our NATO allies, in fact every F-35 partner ought to be burning down the phone lines to the Trumpster, NO WAY IN HELL!

Here is an area where I've got to question Mattis?? this is a NO brainer! "not only NO, but HELL NO!"

If the Turks were allowed to purchase the F-35, that damnable S-400 would "paint it" every time it flew over, from every angle", NO, NO, NO!

and take away those production plants, get em the hell out of there, this is a fundamental breach of trust on Erdogon's part, shut it down!

It's like being engaged to a woman who cheats on you, sorry Baby! its over!

Yet it seems to be no issue to allow Israeli F-35s to fly under the range of the S-400 the Russians have in Latakia.
 
this thread for
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Another US ally -- and host of a critical Middle Eastern air base -- is considering buying a high-tech Russian missile system. What can Washington do about it?
The Trump administration’s promise last year to slap sanctions on countries who buy Russian military equipment appears to have done little to deter key allies.

For months, American allies from India to Saudi Arania to Turkey have weighed absorbing the promised economic hit, while a new entrant has recently entered the fray. Qatar, the tiny Gulf monarchy who hosts the critical al Udeid air base, is considering deepening its investment in the Russian defense industry, including its infamous S-400 anti-aircraft system.

Qatar’s foreign minister Sheikh Mohammed bin Abdulrahman al-Thani
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
with Russia’s Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov Monday that “there is a discussion for procurement of various Russian equipment” — specifically the S-400 — though no decisions have been made.

When it comes to buying advanced foreign arms, the Qataris have been known to window shop extensively before walking away, making it difficult to predict how seriously to take their dalliance with Moscow and the S-400. But earlier this year, Qatari Ambassador to Moscow Fahad bin Mohammed Al-Attiyah
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
were “in the advanced stage.”

American officials say they don’t expect any decision soon from the Qataris, but the country has recently purchased Russian small arms and Kornet anti-tank missiles, levels of magnitude below the air defense system.

A State Department official said Washington is watching the S-400 talks closely, but had nothing to offer on any pressure US officials might place on the country.

Much like its Saudi neighbors — who are also considering the Russian system — Qatar already fields the Raytheon-made Patriot air defense system, which it purchased in 2014 for $2.4 billion.

If the deal goes though it would present another complication in the Gulf for the Pentagon, which relies on the al Udeid air base in Qatar as a hub for military activity in the Middle East. Much like the controversial Turkish plans to buy the system, US and western miltiaries would be loathe to operate their aircraft in the shadow of the Russian system, which would soak up all of the information it could on US and allied air operations.

The talks also contribute to larger worries that Moscow is on the verge of selling the S-400 to strategic partners of Washington across the globe.

Moscow is
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
a $3.2 billion contract for four S-400 systems with India, part of about $12 billion worth of Russian arms deals in the works with the Indian government. Both governments have shrugged off the threat of US sanctions, hailing the impending pact as “proof of the special nature of the ties between India and Russia,” as the Russian ambassador to India said earlier this year.

In December, the State Department agreed to sell over 100 Patriot air defense missiles and radar systems to Turkey for $3.5 billion to forestall Turkey’s impending purchase of the Russian system.

That came after Turkey’s plans
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
in Congress last summer, when lawmakers
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
in blocking the sale of F-35 fighters to the NATO ally. (That would be extremely difficult for all sides as Turkey is not just buying F-35s, but is a partner in the program, with eight Turkish companies participating in its construction or in building weapons for the plane.) So far, there has been no indication that members of Congress would voice any such objections over the Patriot sale, as it could potentially be a way out of the mess for both Turkey and NATO.

But Turkish officials have said in recent days that the $3.5 billion price tag of the Patriot is still too high, and
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
the S-400s to begin arriving in July.

During a speech at the Munich Security Conference last month, Vice President Mike Pence warned “we will not stand idly by while NATO allies purchase weapons from our adversaries. We cannot ensure the defense of the West if our allies grow dependent on the East.” US officials for months have warned they could exclude Turkey from the F-35 program and pull the Patriot offer off the table if Ankara buys the Russian system.

An administration official told me, “we do want to work with Turkey; we’ve made it very clear we have serious concerns about the S-400 program, but we will continue to talk with them.”

Hanging over all of these deals is the Countering America’s Adversaries Through Sanctions Act, which would slap sanctions on countries buying military equipment from Russia.

Then-Defense Secretary Jim Mattis last year
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
and Secretary of State Mike Pompeo the flexibility to grant waivers to countries who are critical partners, citing India, Vietnam and Indonesia as countries where the United States is “going to paralyze ourselves” without a national security waiver for sanctions. All three countries have spent billions on Russian military equipment, but are key to U.S. strategy in the Indo-Pacific region.

But, as Russian officials continue to book more meetings with potential customers, it’s not clear if those US threats of economic pain have carried much weight.
it's
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

dated today
 
my favorite self-quote Jul 19, 2017
...
LOL I wonder how a Military operating both F-35s and Triumphs would fit into the world of various Analysts
I'd be at a total loss

oops now I imagined an exercise which would pitch these weapons against each other
and
Turkey Can't Have Both F-35s and Russian Missile System, NATO Commander Says
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
Gen. Curtis M. Scaparrotti said Tuesday that the U.S. should block sales of the
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
to Turkey if it goes ahead with its plan to buy the advanced S-400 anti-air missile system from Russia.

"My best military advice is that we don't follow through" on supplying F-35s to NATO ally Turkey unless it backs out of the S-400 deal with Moscow, said Scaparrotti, who is dual-hatted as head of U.S. European Command and Supreme Allied Commander of NATO.

At a Senate Armed Services Committee hearing, Scaparrotti said he has two reasons for objecting to Turkey getting the S-400 system, which Russia has billed as a weapons system to counter the F-35 in its sales pitch to Turkey, Arab states and China.

"If they accept the S-400 to establish it in Turkey, there is first the issue that it's not interoperable with NATO systems, nor is it interoperable inside of our integrated missile defense system," he said.

"The second has to do with the F-35. It presents a problem to all of our aircraft, but specifically the F-35, I believe," Scaparrotti said.

The dispute over the F-35 sale comes at a time of increasing friction between the U.S. and Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan over concerns about the way forward in Syria as the
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
, as well as Turkey's growing ties with Iran and Russia.

Since 2017, Turkey has been negotiating the estimated $2.5 billion purchase of the mobile S-400 system, dubbed the SA-21 Growler by NATO and called the Triumf system by Russia.

In a two-day visit to Turkey last April, Russian President Vladimir Putin said, "A priority task in the sphere of military technical cooperation is the implementation of the contract for supplies of S-400 Triumf missile systems to Turkey."

Then-Turkish Defense Minister Fikri Isik said that Turkey was turning to Moscow after the U.S. and NATO allies refused help in upgrading its air defenses. "They don't agree to the transfer of technologies in the sphere of air defense systems to us" and "do not make price concessions," he said.

Under previous agreements with the U.S., Turkey also had plans to buy more than 100
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
, the conventional takeoff and landing model of the stealth fighter. Turkish pilots are already training on the F-35 at
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
, Arizona.

"I can confirm we have two Turkish jets [from the proposed sale] here at Luke flying in the 63rd Fighter Squadron and several Turkish pilots in training to fly the F-35," 56th Fighter Wing spokeswoman Maj. Rebecca Heyse said Tuesday. "All our jets at Luke are pooled within the squadrons, so on any day U.S. pilots assigned to the 63rd could be flying Turkish or USAF jets while the Turkish pilots could be flying Turkish or USAF jets."

To counter the Russian S-400 sale, the U.S. State Department in December approved the potential sale to Turkey of the
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
missile system and related equipment for $3.5 billion.

The U.S. offer, if it were accepted by Turkey and approved by Congress, would include 80 Patriot MIM-104E Guidance Enhanced Missiles (GEM-T), 60
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
Missile Segment Enhancement (MSE) missiles, and related equipment, the State Department said.

"This is a huge decision for Turkey. I would hope that they reconsider this one decision on S-400," Scaparrotti said under questioning by Sen. Jeanne Shaheen, D-New Hampshire, at the hearing.

On Tuesday, Deputy Assistant Secretary of State Matthew Palmer and James Jeffrey, the U.S. special envoy for Syria, were in Ankara for meetings with their Turkish counterparts. Palmer was expected to focus on the S-400 sale and the potential risk that going ahead with the deal would scrap the U.S. agreement to sell F-35s to Turkey, the Hurriyet Daily News reported.
 
Top