Chinese Aviation Industry

Discussion in 'Air Force' started by FriedRiceNSpice, Nov 12, 2008.

  1. taxiya
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    taxiya Major
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    In my imagination, one business case for this concept is a long range passenger plane with fewer passengers than the current jumbos. A 737 with the range of 747.

    Of course, the more passenger one can pack into a inter-continental jumbo the more economical for the airline, so the 747. But if there is not big number of passengers but the route has to be served, then this concept is good for it.
     
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  2. delft
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    delft Brigadier

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    I remember the B747SP, a shortened Jumbo with extra fuel, to fly from NY to Tehran in 17 hours. A month ago I read about an extended range 787 that was to fly between London(UK) and Perth(Aus) in 17 hours. There seem to be problems at the airport of Perth. :(

    But I dislike sitting in an aircraft for a long time. When we use airships at 200 km/h it will take a few days, but you can walk around, sleep comfortably, use internet, work, and you would need much less energy which would be provided in the shape of liquid hydrogen whose production can be integrated with an energy system not based on fossil fuels, using excess energy when that happens to be produced by wind power, solar power or whatever.
     
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  3. antiterror13
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    antiterror13 Colonel

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    It won't be long somebody would say China hasn't inovated yet because C919 uses foreign engine ;) and say that Chinese engine technology is so backward even C919 wouldn't use it :p
     
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  4. tphuang
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    tphuang Brigadier
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    i would imagine that would only be in Chinese military forums and some "aviation experts" looking to say that China is behind. Nobody else is that obsessed about this issue. It seems pretty normal for an airliners to use engines from CFM international, since B737 and A320 series both use it.

    The bigger question is whether or not LEAP-1C will achieve it's target SFC at C919 delivery. LEAP-1B was rumoured to run 5% behind its promised SFC and LEAP-1A is 2% behind. While this kind of shortfall typically gets covered by the engine producer, it meas the engine would need 1 or 2 PIPs just to achieve the original target. PW GTF for A320neo is apparently already beating its promised SFC even though the ramp up of mass production and teething problems been issues. It would not be too surprising if GTF is a few % more efficient than LEAP series in a few years. Making me wonder why COMAC picked LEAP-1C when GTF is where the future is at.
     
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  5. tphuang
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    tphuang Brigadier
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    the business case for this is not very good. airlines use single aisle for sub-3000 nm routes because they are optimized for efficency in the 1000 to 2000 nm range. Airlines can pack a lot of people in all these shorter sub-6 hour flights. Anything longer, 29 inch pitch is just way too painful. You can pack a lot of people in on the 9-across 787, 9-across 350 and 10 across 777. If airlines can sell all the seats, then cost per passenger mile will be better than the single aisle plane. The major advantage for something like A321neo is that it can achieve comparable cost to B787 on sub-3000 nm routes as long as it packs the passengers in at tight spaces and it has much better turn around time. So you can use such planes for longer thin route like what a lot of US airlines do with east coast to Western Europe with B757. Anything further, a single aisle will have to dedicate a whole lot more space for storing fuel. On top of that, single aisles don't have crew rest built in so they have to block off business class seat for them. You can't install the fancy business class and first business class seat as you do on a B777. Just check out those 4 across business class seat on B77W aircraft and you would know what I mean.

    Frequency and high utilization and quick turnaround matters a lot more on domestic routes vs long international routes.
     
  6. antiterror13
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    antiterror13 Colonel

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    I believe the main reason LEAP-1C is chosen over GTF because it is French engine ... China might not want to have such trouble in the future (remember Intel XEON saga) ... and also there have been some engine cooperations between France and China

    GTF might be a few % more efficient but it is not ready yet ... anyway Engine is always improving anyway ... you got to choose when available when you need it
     
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  7. B.I.B.
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    B.I.B. Senior Member

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    Friends of ours have been Mercedes purchaser for decades off the same franchise holder. Last year they indicated to the Mercedes salesperson that they had decided to purchase a Lexus instead. Whereupon Mercedes turned around and made them a deal which would have been stupid to turn down.
    My point here is that i think Airbus and Boeing would do the same thing to retain their customers.
     
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  8. SamuraiBlue
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    SamuraiBlue Captain

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    You can't reduce weight by enlarging the wings unless you drastically reduce structural enforcing beams within them in which case you'll have to reduce the amount of cargo since you have less structural strength in the wings.
     
  9. antiterror13
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    antiterror13 Colonel

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    Hsve you ever heard "composite" material ... much lighter and stronger?
    Most structural and body of Boeing B787 are composite/carbon fibre
     
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  10. SamuraiBlue
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    Making the conceptual design inferior compared to 787.
     
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