Aircraft Carriers III

FORBIN

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
Nice ! but QE are almost wide as a US CVN about 70 m vs 80 maximum.

Not the last design it is here
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With Ark Royal retired in 1978 the British were lucky to Falklands despite significant losses,
with she they would have far fewer problems, she have F-4, Buccanner and even rustic but useful AEW Gannet much more capable CAW than Invincible, Hermes and eventualy able to do airstrikes vs Argentinian AB not too defended.

Fortunately Sea Harrier do very good job but without AEW the Fleet was much more vulnerable, CV postioned more far of Islands by security and CAP's efficiency was limited.
 

navyreco

Senior Member
French Navy Aircraft Carrier Charles de Gaulle to be Deployed Against ISIS in October
The French Navy (Marine Nationale) aircraft carrier Charles de Gaulle (R 91) will be deployed again to conduct strikes against the Islamic State (ISIS also called Daech) in October. French President Francois Hollande gave a "Fall" time frame, the Defense minister Jean-Yves Le Drian later said the deployment would take place in October. This will be the third time in two years that the flagship of the French Navy is deployed to the Persian Gulf as part of operation "Chammal".
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Jul 13, 2016
during my rant
Apr 10, 2016

so: US Navy’s most expensive ship ever delayed again

source:
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and
Navy Hints at Possible Further Delay to New Aircraft Carrier
The
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still plans to receive its most expensive warship in November, but has acknowledged that date “may need to be revised” if additional testing issues surface, a spokeswoman said Monday.

A couple of weeks ago, the service said the new $13 billion
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(CVN 78)
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to November due to “first of class” problems, without elaborating. The ship is already two years behind schedule and more than $2 billion over budget.

A Bloomberg News
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last week by Tony Capaccio cited a June 28 memo from the Pentagon’s top weapons tester, J. Michael Gilmore, to its chief weapons buyer, Frank Kendall, that concluded the ship isn’t ready for combat operations because of problems with systems to launch and recover aircraft, defend against aircraft and missiles, and move bombs and munitions.

As a result, the delivery date may slip into 2017, CNN’s Zachary Cohen
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on Monday.

In an email to Military.com, Capt. Thurraya S. Kent, a spokeswoman for the Navy, didn’t confirm a new timeline but acknowledged the estimated delivery date may change. “The current estimated delivery date is in November 2016,” she said. “If additional issues arise during the remaining shipboard testing, that date may need to be revised.”

Kent noted the Ford — a 1,100-foot-long ship being built by Huntington Ingalls Industries Inc. — is 98 percent complete, the first new aircraft carrier design in four decades and built to operate into the 2060s. The vessel is the first in a $41 billion program to deliver three Ford-class carriers intended to replace the
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.

The new Ford-class will feature a similar hull to the Nimitz-class but come with a host of new technologies.

The decision “made many years ago” to incorporate nearly two dozen “developmental systems” — including the electromagnetic aircraft launch system (EMALS), advanced arrested gear (AAG), dual band radar (DBR), advanced weapons elevator (AWE) and a reactor plans propulsion system — has “compounded the inherent challenges of a first in class design,” Kent said.

“Steady progress is being made to retire technical issues,” she added. “EMALS testing was successfully completed in May 2016 and testing of DBR and AAG are projected to complete in time to support upcoming sea trials and first aircraft operations scheduled for early next year.”

The Ford is expected to begin deployments in 2021.

Sen. John McCain, a Republican from Arizona and chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, has repeatedly criticized the acquisition program for its cost overruns and schedule delays.

The postponed delivery to November “further demonstrates that key systems still have not demonstrated expected performance,” he said in a recent statement. “The advanced arresting gear [AAG] cannot recover airplanes. Advanced weapons elevators cannot lift munitions. The dual-band radar cannot integrate two radar bands. Even if everything goes according to the Navy’s plan, CVN-78 will be delivered with multiple systems unproven.”

Kent defended the effort, saying the new carriers will offer “unparalleled advances in operational availability, flexibility to accommodate high power/energy warfighting advances, higher aircraft launch and recovery rate, reduced manning, and improved survivability to match projected threats — all at a $4 billion reduction per ship in total ownership cost as compared to the Nimitz-class.”
source:
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FORBIN

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
If re design needed much more long... postponed delivery to mid 2018 easy they are issues and more... !
Fortunatley Lincoln not retired in 2013 a time was envisaged.
 
A lot of people (Congress Critters) moaning about the delays, but I'd reply do you want it on time or do you want it to work? With revolutionary technology you can rarely have both.
I see so you blame
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but I blame the US Military for the blunderous concept of "concurrency"
https://www.sinodefenceforum.com/aircraft-carriers-iii.t7304/page-85#post-395328
and I repeat my line from
Mar 12, 2016
..., it's clear to me the US Military should've instead gradually develop, gradually test, gradually manufacture, gradually field new options, not like scrambling many of them together and wait more than a decade for some Wunderwaffe, which only "ultimately" works ...
There's no need to disprove me now (but of course you may tell me how wrong I'm): time will tell, and in the meantime :) let me ask you
Obi Wan Russell
how long a delay would you still consider acceptable?
  • USS Nimitz (CVN-68) was authorized in 1968 and "first deployed ... on 7 July 1976" according to wiki;
  • Gerald R. Ford (CVN-78) was authorized in 2008 (there had been some advance funding which I ignore, but you may nitpick about)
so please tell me the year when it would be still fine, according to you, if the Ford sailed for her first deployment; as an example of the answer, I offer my guess: 2022, and thank you for the consideration

(I suppose a similar question about cost overruns would be moot, as there's Nunn–McCurdy for this)
 

FORBIN

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
(I suppose a similar question about cost overruns would be moot, as there's Nunn–McCurdy for this)
The Nunn–McCurdy Amendment or Nunn–McCurdy Provision, introduced by Senator
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and Congressman
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in the
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1982
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and made permanent in 1983, is designed to curtail cost growth in American
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programs.

It requires notification to the
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if the cost per unit goes more than 25% beyond what was originally estimated, and calls for the termination of programs with total cost growth greater than 50%, unless the
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submits a detailed explanation certifying:

  1. the program is essential to national security, that no suitable alternative of lesser cost is available;
  2. new estimates of total program costs are reasonable; and
  3. management structure is (or has been made) adequate to control costs....

...
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In fact a true matter for Jura :cool: your funny in more a little unusual Buddy but a very good boy :) ;)
 

Obi Wan Russell

Jedi Master
VIP Professional
I don't consider any delay acceptable, I'm just being realistic. I was trained as a deign engineer and still stand by many of the lessons learned, simple edicts such as 'The Gods do Laugh when Men Make Plans', 'Keep It Simple Stupid', and Evolution is easier than Revolution'. I think we are arguing from the same side really, the root causes for the delays are as you point out but that was all a decade or more ago and we are where we are. At this point delays in the Ford's service entry are inevitable, and regrettable, which is simply the point I was trying to make. We can all cite projects that have been rushed into service before they were ready in order to meet arbitrary deadlines, and it never ends well, hence my statement of "do you want it on time or do you want it to work?"
 

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
A lot of people (Congress Critters) moaning about the delays, but I'd reply do you want it on time or do you want it to work? With revolutionary technology you can rarely have both.

Exactly, and while no one wants to pay more, or wait longer for anything, including a Big MAC?? the truth is we are in an extremely inflationary economy. The taxes on my house are nearly 1,000 dollars, just to live in my very simple, 100 year old house, up about 200% from when we moved here 20 years ago.

So, everything is much more trouble than it initially appears, my old Firebird blew up, simple change the motor, I bought a short block the next day in Kentucky, as I had been wanting to build another engine anyway. I intended to reuse the heads, but after a week at the Machine shop, they were cracked. So I began searching for another set of heads, a week later I found a nice pair, they have been in the Machine shop an additional week and a half, got a call Monday, they are good, so I confirmed the work order, and I should have them this week.

Point is, I planned on a short block and gaskets, $500.00, then bought heads, $100 dollars, then commissioned machine work, $15.00 in parts, $500.00 + in labor. So you get my drift, the simplest projects depend on a myriad of details to come together???

So people who push pencils all day, and have never gotten any grease under their fingernails, smashed their thumbs, fingers, had a greasy wrench slip, broken a bolt off in a flange??? drill out, break carbide bit???, take carbide burr and grind it out, retap, and pray it holds????

Every project WILL HAVE delays, every project, WILL INCREASE in cost, every project WILL TAKE LONGER than you anticipated. Its a simple fact of life, not some diabolical plot by your company, its just life.
 
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