2014 Ukrainian Maidan Revolt: News, Views, Photos & Videos

Discussion in 'Members' Club Room' started by bd popeye, Feb 19, 2014.

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  1. delft
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    delft Brigadier

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    I have been listening nearly daily to the BBC since 1967 so I know its biases. Here the story it gives of the destruction in Marinka:
    BBC News - Ukraine conflict: Shells ravage suburb of Donetsk
     
  2. texx1
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    texx1 Junior Member

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    Since there is talk of new sanctions, this article explains how it has unintended costs.

    London Seeks New Spenders as Russians Skip $719 Champagne - Bloomberg

     
  3. SampanViking
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    SampanViking The Capitalist
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    [​IMG]
    http://i.imgur.com/VL2yc7v.jpg[/QUOTE]

    The big red star on the map Brocolli posted is Zelenopillya, where the BBC is quoting (follow Delft's earlier link) unofficial but eyewitness sources that at least fifty of Lvov battalion were killed yesterday.

    I have to say that I question the sanity of the strategist that decided that trying to force a corridor all along the Donbass and Russian borders was a good idea. It might work if the attacker was the US and the defender Iraq or the Taliban. We have seen very clearly however, that Ukrainian forces lack the overwhelming superiority to be able to pull of such a manoeuvre with impunity. The Zelenopillya annihilation attack is the perfect graphic illustration of this fact.

    Instead we have a very extended and very vulnerable force sandwiched between the Pro Russian Militia and the Russian border. This means a long permanently exposed flank to one side and a hostile border on the other and absolutely no room to manoeuvre once things start getting sticky.

    To compound the problems of the Ukrainian forces, as they have attacked the militia held border checkpoints, there has been a rapidly escalating number of incidents involving Ukrainian fire and munitions landing on the Russian side of the border, often hitting Russia's own border check points.
    After weeks of restraint, Russian patience is clearly starting to wear very thin indeed!

    Moscow protests shooting at Russian border guards from Ukrainian side — RT News

    Story is being widely carried as a headline throughout the main Russian media.

    The Ukrainians now seriously risk becoming the meat in a Russian sandwich, with militia on one flank and RF army artillery or even air strikes coming in from the other. If Kiev disliked the Grad, I wonder how they would feel after being at the receiving end of Smersh?
     
  4. delft
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    delft Brigadier

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    Tension is rising. A Russian town on the border with Ukraine was hit this morning:
    http://rt.com/news/172404-russian-donetsk-shelled-victims/
     
  5. mr.bean
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    mr.bean Junior Member

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    oh dear lord. now that was a very stupid thing to do. that chocolate president is sh*tting bricks now.
     
  6. SampanViking
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    SampanViking The Capitalist
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    Unfortunately, there can be little doubt that Kiev is now under the influence of really quite sinister forces, who want nothing more than to be able to recast Russia as the aggressive expansionist bogey man and restart the cold war all over again, with no regard for the cost. I would posit that the underlying rationale of the whole Ukrainian tragedy has been to provoke Russia into actions that would enable the recast, and that Russia's restraint and reluctance is causing others to resort to ever more desperate provocations to achieve it.

    Restraint has it limits however and I think today's Demarche from Russia's Foreign Ministry is going to be the final warning. Tass has reported that some border guards have already returned small arms fire across the border after being targeted by mortars.

    Beyond that here is a very interesting video linked via the Sakar this morning.
    It is described as showing a column of armoured vehicles of South Ossetian and Chechen volunteers arriving in the Donbass.
    An interesting comment made is that many of those guys are probably Muslim, but they are still volunteering to defend Orthodox Christians.

    [video=youtube_share;3iu-dfeZHlM]http://youtu.be/3iu-dfeZHlM[/video]
     
  7. plawolf
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    plawolf Brigadier

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    Whenever someone does, or appear to at least, do something so incredibly and obviously stupid, my first thought is, did they actually do it?

    What is the end game in Ukraine provoking the Russians to war from Ukraine or the west's POV? Russia is far too powerful and dangerous for NATO to want to attack directly, and Ukraine is too weak, internally divided and close to Russia to act as their Vietnam.

    If the Russian tanks go in, it will only be a matter of time before they take all of Ukraine.

    Casting Russia as the new bogeyman and rebooting the Cold War doesn't make an awful lot of sense either from a western, and particularly American POV because their top fear is China.

    China was already the top concern back in the earliest days of the Bush II reign, but history and the hatred of madman changed that. The war on terror and subsequent US military (mis)adventures have already allowed China to make huge strides in terms of closing the gap with the US on all fronts.

    America's top priority now must surely be to try and maintain or even re-extend its lead.

    How does re-enacting the Georgian war on a larger scale and plunging Europe into a new Cold War with the 'wrong' target advance American strategic aims and objectives in terms of maintaining its homogeny over the world?

    If anything, such a course of events would benefit China as it would allow it more time to grow and develop in peace (notice how things in the South China Sea and East China Seas were so much quieter when the US was ears deep in Iraq and had no time for anything else).

    Could Chinese agents be behind everything in Ukraine? It is a possibility in the same sense that it's possible to win every lottery draw, but what is far more plausible and likely for the shelling of Russian towns and boarder posts would be false flag attacks launched by the rebels as they are loosing ground and grow more desperate for more substantial Russia assistance.

    We saw this is Syria (again, interestingly enough, the supposed Government gas attacks only happened when the west was trying to drum up support for direct military intervention, and inexplicable stopped soon after it became apparent the West was sitting this war out), so it's entirely possible that something similar is happening in Ukraine.

    Of course, another big possible cause could just be sheer incompetence and gross stupidity. Maybe some greenhorn Ukraine yobs who were firebombing police in Kiev just a few months back didn't pay as much attention as they should have during basic training and/or some bright spark officer picked the wrong Donetsk on the map. Stupider things have happened, especially the map thing, apparently...
     
  8. SampanViking
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    SampanViking The Capitalist
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    I would say follow the money Wolfie. There are many figures in numerous countries that see current and future cuts to military spending as not simply an ideological issue, but one that hits them in their pockets directly and they are determined to see proposed cuts stopped and previous cuts reversed.
    I think some have tried to use China as the new bogey man, but China refuses to play ball and there is very little that they can torment her with to try and force the issue.
    Russia has some real open wounds that they could get mileage out of.

    Things seem to be kicking off on the ground with reports of major assaults starting on Donetsk and Lugansk and Russia reporting a Ukrainian aircraft violating its airspace.

    BBC News - Ukraine conflict: Ground forces 'storming Luhansk'
    ITAR-TASS: Russia - Ukrainian warplane invades Russia airspace
     
  9. Broccoli
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    Broccoli Junior Member

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    HPlml9-bqFg.jpg
     
  10. Equation
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    Equation Lieutenant General

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    I can't read the article in Russian could you or someone please translate it?:(:confused:
     
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