It is in Western armies, but my understanding is that in the PLA the gunner sits in the back and the pilot in the front. I've no doubt either mission could be performed from either seat, but I'm not so sure either person is trained to perform either role equally well.
Z-10 thread
- Thread starter Red Guard
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Hendrik_2000
Lieutenant General
Henri K just upload this Heli brigade video
asif iqbal
Lieutenant General
Wow thats amazing !!
Finally the crucial part of amphibious assault operations coming together
Finally the crucial part of amphibious assault operations coming together
With the planned new-establishment or better expansion of a Marine Corps via the transfer of PLA Brigades just a question: Is this only the prelude to the formation of a dedicated PLAN Marine Corps including their own aviation units with dedicated attack helicopters, construction of helicopter carriers or LHA and transport types ??
Will this transfer of PLA-Brigades also include the transfer of PLA Army Aviation units like existing Z-10s to the PLAN Marine ?
Deino
Will this transfer of PLA-Brigades also include the transfer of PLA Army Aviation units like existing Z-10s to the PLAN Marine ?
Deino
plawolf
Lieutenant General
I don't think the PLAN marines will branch off into its own mini-military like the USMC, mainly because I don't really see the point in that arrangement for the USMC.
Seems too much like a political turf war over something that yields any meaningful operational advantages.
The splitting out and creation of such a force also seems counter productive in an age where the goal is to get the disparate forces of the same military to seamlessly work as one.
The marines, as the specialist assault troops echelon of the navy, seems just fine as part of the navy as far as I am concerned. In which case, any army forces transferred across will be part of the navy, so it makes little difference if they have marines or navy on their jackets, as they will all report to the same chain of command to serve the same objectives.
TerraN_EmpirE
Tyrant King
that is an old argument that even the USMC has with it's self from time to time. The USMC despite being a separate service in theory is still attached to the USN at the hip. Like conjoined twins with the heart in one twin and not the other. the Marines depend on the Navy for a wide number of essential life functions including medical, engineering, procurement and development, psychological and spiritual support and officer training. The USMC is and will remain under the Department of the Navy.
it was a budget thing. The USMC became more specialized and needed an independent budget to procure systems better suited to the service. The PLANMC doesn't seem to be in the same boat right now and appears to be operating in a different political system.
The PLA is a far younger organization than the USMC. As such it's growth rate is different additionally it's Area of operations is smaller as such keeping it closer to the main body of the PLAN is reasonable. And a number of Marine Corps are still directly under there Navies.
As it should be. The main reason the USMC splintered was that it began incorporating aviation and operating far more inland than the landing zones. This slowly drove the wedge between the Navy and Marines. As the Marines moved more and more inland this drew the ire of the Army. Who felt the mission creep was getting out of hand and wanted to either absorb the Marines or push them back to the Beaches. After years of fighting the debate has never been settled. But the USMC has however never adopted a number of elements into it's self to keep it as it likes to say a rapid response force. As such the USMC lacks Heavier Self propelled howitzers using towed guns, well having fast jets. Yet no independent engineer corps.
For the PLAMC the question is in my mind does the aviation arm now mean pushing farther inland. As the Pacific islands are a perfect Marine corps territory it just makes sense to focus on a larger Marine force if you intend to operate across the Pacific.
Hendrik_2000
Lieutenant General
Anyone care to spreculate WZ9X? intended for Z10 or Z20
Re posting vincent post on CDF
Turboshaft engine "Yulong" has been put into production
The design team has to visit Changsha for their computing needs. Is there a supercomputer there?
"当年所里不具备大型运算条件。为完成发动机数据计算工作，经常往返于长沙和研究所两地之间"
——记“玉龙”发动机研制团队
2013年
“玉龙”发动机工程荣获国家科学技术进步一等奖，这是我国航空发动机单独申报取得的最高国家级奖项。
“玉龙”发动机是由我国自主研发、具有自主知识产权的先进涡轴发动机，它的研制生产并投入使用，扭转了核心能力受制于人的被动局面，有效地推动了直升机产业发展。
在“玉龙”发动机项目研制中，中国航发动研所作为总设计师单位，中国航发南方作为主承制单位，研制团队践行“脚踏实地、自主自立、执著坚守、志在超越”的“玉龙精神”，为推动航空发动机事业向前发展贡献自己的力量。
脚踏实地 筑牢发展基石
作为“玉龙”发动机研制团队的核心人物，总设计师尹泽勇院士对于研制工作严格要求、精益求精，同时注意培养研发队伍严慎细实的工作作风。他坚持将数据和事实作为开展科研工作的基本要求，强调在研制工作中多做定量分析，用具体数据支持分析结论，并经试验验证方能实施。
作为“玉龙”发动机研制团队的核心人物，总设计师尹泽勇院士对于研制工作严格要求、精益求精，同时注意培养研发队伍严慎细实的工作作风。他坚持将数据和事实作为开展科研工作的基本要求，强调在研制工作中多做定量分析，用具体数据支持分析结论，并经试验验证方能实施。
△中国工程院院士尹泽勇
在“玉龙”发动机研制进入后期阶段并且进展顺利时，尹泽勇精益求精，提出关注发动机细节设计这一重要问题，并多次组织了发动机设计复查，清查出发动机研制过程中存在的一些隐患，提前避免了问题的发生，确保了型号研制进程。
在尹泽勇院士的带领下，“玉龙”发动机研制团队把“精心”的管理思想始终贯穿于研制全过程，在管理上做到精心组织、精心策划、精心安排，深入一线、细致检查、严格考核；在技术上做到精心设计、精心验证、精心研判，科学改进、准确把握技术状态和实物状态；在试验和试制上做到精心操作、精心计算、精心实施，努力保证各个环节不出纰漏、不留隐患。
google translation
- "Yulong" engine development team 2013 "Yulong" engine project won the national scientific and technological progress award, which is our aircraft engine highest single national awards.
"Yulong" engine is developed by our own independent, with independent intellectual property rights of the advanced turboshaft engine, its development and production and put into use, effectively promoted the helicopter industry.
In the "Yulong" engine project development, China Aviation Institute as a chief designer unit, China Southern Airlines as the main unit of the system, the development team to practice "down to earth, self-reliance, perseverance, aiming beyond" and "Yulong Spirit ", to promote the development of aeroengine cause to contribute their own strength.
As the core figure of the development team of the "Yulong" engine, the chief designer Yin Ziyong is very strict with the development of the work, and at the same time pay attention to cultivate the research and development team
Yan Shen careful work style. He insisted on the data and facts as the basic requirements of scientific research work, emphasizing the development of more quantitative analysis in the work, with specific data to support the analysis of the conclusions, and by experimental verification can be implemented.
As the "Yulong" engine development team's core figure, the chief designer Yin Ziyong academicians for the development of strict requirements, excellence, while training R & D team Yan Shen careful work style.
He insisted on the data and facts as the basic requirements of scientific research work, emphasizing the development of more quantitative analysis in the work, with specific data to support the analysis of the conclusions, and by experimental verification can be implemented.
In the "Yulong" engine development into the late stage and progress smoothly, Yin Zekong refinement, put forward the attention of the engine details of this important issue, and repeatedly organized the engine design review, check out the engine development process of some of the hidden trouble, in advance to avoid the occurrence of the problem, to ensure that the model development process.
Under the leadership of Academician Yin Ziyong, "Yulong" engine development team to "careful" management ideas throughout the development of the whole process,
Re posting vincent post on CDF
Turboshaft engine "Yulong" has been put into production
The design team has to visit Changsha for their computing needs. Is there a supercomputer there?
"当年所里不具备大型运算条件。为完成发动机数据计算工作，经常往返于长沙和研究所两地之间"
——记“玉龙”发动机研制团队
2013年
“玉龙”发动机工程荣获国家科学技术进步一等奖，这是我国航空发动机单独申报取得的最高国家级奖项。
“玉龙”发动机是由我国自主研发、具有自主知识产权的先进涡轴发动机，它的研制生产并投入使用，扭转了核心能力受制于人的被动局面，有效地推动了直升机产业发展。
在“玉龙”发动机项目研制中，中国航发动研所作为总设计师单位，中国航发南方作为主承制单位，研制团队践行“脚踏实地、自主自立、执著坚守、志在超越”的“玉龙精神”，为推动航空发动机事业向前发展贡献自己的力量。
脚踏实地 筑牢发展基石
作为“玉龙”发动机研制团队的核心人物，总设计师尹泽勇院士对于研制工作严格要求、精益求精，同时注意培养研发队伍严慎细实的工作作风。他坚持将数据和事实作为开展科研工作的基本要求，强调在研制工作中多做定量分析，用具体数据支持分析结论，并经试验验证方能实施。
作为“玉龙”发动机研制团队的核心人物，总设计师尹泽勇院士对于研制工作严格要求、精益求精，同时注意培养研发队伍严慎细实的工作作风。他坚持将数据和事实作为开展科研工作的基本要求，强调在研制工作中多做定量分析，用具体数据支持分析结论，并经试验验证方能实施。
△中国工程院院士尹泽勇
在“玉龙”发动机研制进入后期阶段并且进展顺利时，尹泽勇精益求精，提出关注发动机细节设计这一重要问题，并多次组织了发动机设计复查，清查出发动机研制过程中存在的一些隐患，提前避免了问题的发生，确保了型号研制进程。
在尹泽勇院士的带领下，“玉龙”发动机研制团队把“精心”的管理思想始终贯穿于研制全过程，在管理上做到精心组织、精心策划、精心安排，深入一线、细致检查、严格考核；在技术上做到精心设计、精心验证、精心研判，科学改进、准确把握技术状态和实物状态；在试验和试制上做到精心操作、精心计算、精心实施，努力保证各个环节不出纰漏、不留隐患。
google translation
- "Yulong" engine development team 2013 "Yulong" engine project won the national scientific and technological progress award, which is our aircraft engine highest single national awards.
"Yulong" engine is developed by our own independent, with independent intellectual property rights of the advanced turboshaft engine, its development and production and put into use, effectively promoted the helicopter industry.
In the "Yulong" engine project development, China Aviation Institute as a chief designer unit, China Southern Airlines as the main unit of the system, the development team to practice "down to earth, self-reliance, perseverance, aiming beyond" and "Yulong Spirit ", to promote the development of aeroengine cause to contribute their own strength.
As the core figure of the development team of the "Yulong" engine, the chief designer Yin Ziyong is very strict with the development of the work, and at the same time pay attention to cultivate the research and development team
Yan Shen careful work style. He insisted on the data and facts as the basic requirements of scientific research work, emphasizing the development of more quantitative analysis in the work, with specific data to support the analysis of the conclusions, and by experimental verification can be implemented.
As the "Yulong" engine development team's core figure, the chief designer Yin Ziyong academicians for the development of strict requirements, excellence, while training R & D team Yan Shen careful work style.
He insisted on the data and facts as the basic requirements of scientific research work, emphasizing the development of more quantitative analysis in the work, with specific data to support the analysis of the conclusions, and by experimental verification can be implemented.
In the "Yulong" engine development into the late stage and progress smoothly, Yin Zekong refinement, put forward the attention of the engine details of this important issue, and repeatedly organized the engine design review, check out the engine development process of some of the hidden trouble, in advance to avoid the occurrence of the problem, to ensure that the model development process.
Under the leadership of Academician Yin Ziyong, "Yulong" engine development team to "careful" management ideas throughout the development of the whole process,
MwRYum
Major
Timing and general situation background is about the time Z-10 puts into serial production, so it's very like about the WZ-9 stepped in as the "Plan B" and made the cut (even that also means performance have to cut back) when the "PT6C plan" busted.
Not likely the one for Z-20, because it'd need more powerful engine in order to comply with the high altitude operation requirement. Possibly newer, more powerful engine that became available post-2012, explains why the Z-20 project, rumoured for so long, "suddenly" fast tracked and first flew in 2013.
Last edited:
danielchin
Junior Member
Very high definition images from inside the Z-10 cockpit plus the 23mm gun firing,
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