Z-10 thread

[yuxiaochen]

we chinese people always take good care of our pakistan brothers =D

I knew it that cargo plane I mentioned which landed in Pakistan last week was carrying these units !!! Wow just wow

And before anyone says those pictures are from China it's NOT that's Qasim base !!!!

Finally we have Z-10 in Pakistan

In 1965 China gifted Pakistan F6 fighters it's the best they had today in 2015 they gifted modern attack helicopters

Administrator add hash tag for Pak and China flag because this is the time to fly them !!!!

we

 

[PanAsian]

While I think it would be great if China would do ToT of WZ-10 to Pakistan, but the real question is is there a NEED for a large number of WZ-10 in Pakistan? From what I understand - Pakistan's border with India are all very mountainous and very high altitude (such as Kashmir) - basically unsuitable for tank battle, which in turn means WZ-10 (or any attack helicopter's)'s usefulness is doubtful.

WZ-10 may be great against the insurgent attacks in the Waziristan region, but I don't think Pakistan need more than 2 squadrons of WZ-10 for this type of operation against the terrorists. And to set up factories just to produce 2 squadrons of it sounds expensive and unnecessary.

What I think Pakistan need is actually transport helicopters - especially high altitude heavy transport helicopters where it can transport large number of troops to the frontline (like Kashmir) or anywhere quickly.

I think you are underestimating the number of attack helicopters needed for fighting and patrolling vast areas with insurgents. Attack helicopters are also useful for patrolling and fighting along the mountainous border, even as escorts for transports, despite the lack of opposing armor. There are also passes where the threat of hostile armor is possible and you never know if an amphibious invasion comes around.

 

[Deino]

Seems like 2 WZ-10 and 1 WZ-19 exported to Pakistan (possibly for evaluation?)

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No, I had the same idea but received this reply ...

Deino, are you sure it's 2 Z-10s and 1 Z-19? All 3 appear to be Z-10s? Notice the tail of the third chopper in the background appearing over the rear fuselage of the one in the foreground, similar to the other two. The Z-19 has a fenestron and enclosed tail rotor low down, and not mounted high on the tail like the Z-10s.

You are indeed correct. I only compared the back of the helicopters ... But I missed that the first helicopter's tail is ecaxtly in front of the back of the one behind and so it looked like a Z-19.

Deino

 

[asif iqbal]

Thinking about numbers and currently Pakistan operates around 10 attack helos on the frontline in Combat operations with another 10 ready to deploy in Multan with 10 in reserve this is covered by 37 x AH-1S this covers training and also any operational inbalance

Now that does not include support to the PA

So it goes without question that Pakistan will need easily 3 regiment style units with 36 attack helicopters

If we want to establish PA support easily another 3 regiments can be established

So we are talking 3-6 regiments of Z-10 from between 36-72 combat helicopters

The Bell 412 currently asks as Pakistans scout helicopter we have 26 such helos

The AS550 Fennec also attacks as a armed scout we have 10 units

Bell 412 were delivered by 2007 and Fennecs by 2013 so all new scout helos so I don't see PA being interested in Z-19 at this point

However if Pakistan army aviation starts to cover tank divisions for dedicated support we would, require 2 x Z-10 along with 2 x Z-19 scouts

So Z-19 would be a good addition in future

 

[Black Shark]

Well i just hope this is the point where actual performance and parameters for Z-10 can be published, so i can continue my work.

 

[SpicySichuan]

on Weibo it says that these WZ-10s were just arrived in Pakistan. the poster in the background of the second picture seems to be in english, so the possibility is pretty high.
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It is very important for Pak Army to test these three gunships in the former's fight against the Taliban. It would be a chance to see how effective the WZ-10 and WZ-19 can track down insurgents and avoid MANPADs and RPGs.

 

[plawolf]

This is quite a significant step, as these look like Chinese military spec units straight from the same assembly line rather than export models.

Would be interesting to see what the Pakistani pilots thinks of them compared to the Cobras they currently fly.

However, unless Pakistan sent pilots over to China for conversion training months if not over a year ago, it may be some time yet before these birds see any real action.

 

[SinoSoldier]

This is quite a significant step, as these look like Chinese military spec units straight from the same assembly line rather than export models.

Would be interesting to see what the Pakistani pilots thinks of them compared to the Cobras they currently fly.

However, unless Pakistan sent pilots over to China for conversion training months if not over a year ago, it may be some time yet before these birds see any real action.

Just because they're fresh off the assembly line doesn't mean that some systems weren't left out for the purpose of secrecy. But again, the WZ-10 isn't in its full form as of now (still awaiting WZ-16 and MMW radar).

It could be an indication that the Chinese has something else in the pipeline (rumor states it is a Havoc-Apache hybrid).

 

[plawolf]

Just because they're fresh off the assembly line doesn't mean that some systems weren't left out for the purpose of secrecy. But again, the WZ-10 isn't in its full form as of now (still awaiting WZ-16 and MMW radar).

It could be an indication that the Chinese has something else in the pipeline (rumor states it is a Havoc-Apache hybrid).

You can't just strip out vital systems without putting in replacements.

Given the timescale and number of units concerned, I am pretty doubtful they would have developed bespoke export versions of key systems and integrated them. Especially since these 3 are supposed to be a gift, so there won't have been foreign development funds to pay for all that work.

As Pakistan start to test and use them, they no doubt would form their own lists of modifications they would want made to best suit the local conditions and what they want the helos to do.

At that point, once they have a clear idea of exactly what the Pakistanis wants, and after Pakistan signs a contract and money starts to flow, then would China develop bespoke systems to best meet Pakistani needs and wants while differentiating them from China's own units.

Who knows, may the PLA will pick up some of those suggestions and ask for them to be introduced to their own Z10s.

In terms of security, I think attack helicopters are kinda in a unique category.

Unlike with sensitive systems like fighters, SAMs or subs Etc, an enemy won't really be in much of a better position to be able to counter and defeat attack helicopters if they had details about their key systems.

I think that is one of the key reasons the PLA allowed this gift.

 

[TerraN_EmpirE]

Considering that the Chinese made extensive use of Export avionics it might be thaat they produced the Birds based on Foreign off the Shelf avionics for some systems.