Wars of the future

Discussion in 'Members' Club Room' started by Jones Henry, Sep 28, 2005.

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  1. Schumacher
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    Schumacher Senior Member

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    True. As I've said before, the main reason of the US's dominance today is luck. The US should firstly thank Germany & Japan for wrecking Europe & Asia, and secondly they should thank China & Russia for their crucial roles in the winning WWII.
    Maybe they should also thank Zheng He for not conquering America :) So that the Europeans only had to contend with the native American Indians in their conquest of America.
     
  2. IDonT
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    IDonT Senior Member
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    US is blessed with non hostile countries within its immediate borders.
    Canada and Mexico. I can't say the same for Russia and China.

    Luck was not the only factor. The US became a superpower after WWII because of its strong economy and the hardwork of its people. How come Canada did not became one, it homeland was never attacked.

    In WWII, US industrial output was greater than the rest of the world combined. Luck had nothing to do with that.
     
  3. FreeAsia2000
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    FreeAsia2000 Junior Member

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    Zheng He was a civilized human who believed in discovering the world
    not in plundering it !

    Evil is avaricious however in the end it consumes itself
     
  4. IDonT
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    IDonT Senior Member
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    I believe you are mistaken.

    Zheng He was just an Admiral who implemented policy not originated it.
    It was the Ming Emperor who Yongle who created the policy. After his death, his son stopped all the voyages, destroyed his logs, and prohibited the building of multi-masted ships.

    The voyages were very expensive to maintain and it brought nothing to China in return. That's why it was stopped.

    Yes, China has done its share of plundering too. No nation is innocent in that regards.
     
  5. AssassinsMace
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    AssassinsMace Brigadier

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    But others have been far worse. China never attempted to take over the world unlike the West.
     
  6. IDonT
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    IDonT Senior Member
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    Yes it has, just not as successful.
    China was involved with imperialism all the way to the late 19th century.

    Since wars of expansion of QIng China

    The Qing dynasty conquered and destroy the Zunghar state in the Steppe. One of the largest genocidal war in history. The Zunghar people were almost wipe out.

    Chinese invasion of Burma; Burma forced to recognize Chinese sovereignty
    Rebellion headed by Wang Lun
    Rebellion on Taiwan
    Qing invasion of Tibet
    Qing conquest of Xinjiang
    Annam forced to recognize Chinese sovereignty
    Nepalese invasion of Tibet
    Sino-Tibetan invasion of Nepal
    Miao Rebellion in Hunan, Guangxi
    Xinjiang : Wushu Rebellion
    Muslim rebellion in Yunnan
    Khokand invasion of (Chinese) Kashgaria
    Xinjiang : Uyghur Rebellion
    Rebellion in Yunnan
    Xinjiang : Uyghur Rebellion
    Xinjiang : Uyghur Rebellion
    Hui Rebellion in Gansu, affectng Shaanxi
    Xinjiang in rebellion
    Chinese reoccupation of the Ili Territory


    The book China Marches West: The Qing Conquest of Central Eurasia by peter C. Perdue tells this little known story.

    http://www.frontlist.com/detail/067401684X
     
  7. Schumacher
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    Schumacher Senior Member

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    Sure, luck was not the only reason but was one of the main ones. So US had the biggest industrial ouput by WWII, thank Germany again for WWI ?? :) & of course thank the corruption of the Qing Dynasty.
     
  8. AssassinsMace
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    AssassinsMace Brigadier

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    You're equating that with trying to take over the world? I didn't make that statement figuratively. IT WAS LITERALLY! The countries of the West are the only ones in the history of the world with a plan and acted to take over the world. Do we see Chinese influence and language in the Americas? Do we see it in Africa? Do we see it in Europe? Do we see it in the Middle East? Do we see it in India? Do we see it in Austrailia? You can only say the Far East and that ain't the world! And in many cases, it wasn't out force but of a diaspora.

    The fact is if China wanted to take over the world it was very capable of doing yet it didn't! Unlike the West, China never had a religion that said the people who embrace this religion own the world and it's their duty to convert the world under its dominion.

    Do you see in China's museums displaying its plunder of artifacts around the world like we see in Western museums? Do we see genetic mongoloid features in people around the world because of mass rape like what was practice by the West when they raped the entrie world... literally and figuratively? Do you see Chinese historical involvement in the global international slave trade of any kind selling other races into slavery all around the world? The only slaves in China were Chinese slaves and we know you don't care about them! Do we see China creating the first global drug cartel like the West did with opium? But unlike today's drug cartels that do it for money, the West's number one purpose in producing opium was to use it to destroy people so that their countries would be easier to take over. The answer is no to all of the above but the West certainly did those unique and notoriously horrid crimes upon humanity!

    China never imposed a fine for every word of non-Chinese spoken on natives of other countries on their own land unlike the West. Out of the 156 years of British occupation of Hong Kong only the last 6 has any measure of democracy. And that only came because China was about take back Hong Kong under treaty. And it wasn't even a true democracy. The people of Hong Kong could never elect their own leader. That was decided in Great Britain where no Chinese of Hong Kong had representation. The governor chosen was always white and always male. The British use to imprison Chinese children that protested that the truth be taught in schools about how the British aquired Hong Kong because of the opium trade and colonial conquest and not the lie they were teaching in Hong Kong at the time. Interesting that the West cries for democracy in Hong Kong today yet didn't utter one complaint when the British imposed a dictatorship throughout their occupation. Same system yet somehow it's only bad when China is in control.

    The West cries for a million Tibetans dead in 50 years, but in 1965 the US pressured the Indonesian government to "deal with its communist problem." So what did the Indonesians do? Since communism in that part of the world was more influence by China, the Indonesians decided to kill everyone Chinese even though the vast majority of them have had generations living there before communism ever started in Russia. Over 1 miilion dead in less than a month. I bet you don't cry for them!

    Apparently, China is horrible when it comes to practicing genocide compared to the West. 75 million Native Americans... 200 million African slaves through the Middle Passage... And you think China is bad? Is this the Western mentality when the two same crimes are committed.. one by a white and the other by a black, the black is more likely to be convicted and sent to prison? But apparently in this case the lesser offender is more of a criminal in your eyes.

    Who's bombings countries left and right based on lies? Not China. Look at how you turn a blind eye when the US invades Iraq to steal its oil. What hypocrisy! No wonder the world hates you because you are in complete denial of what your side committed onto the world.
     
    #18 AssassinsMace, Sep 29, 2005
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2005
  9. Schumacher
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    Schumacher Senior Member

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    True. When it comes to genocide, nothing comes close to the scale of the atrocities commited by Europeans against the natives in North America & Australia. The moment the Europeans gained the technologies & maps, originally drawn by Zheng He's voyages perhaps ?, they set out to conquer every corner of the world.
    And the African slaves .... where would the US economy be today without the contribution from slavery in the early years of that young nation. It wouldn't be far fetched to say that the extermination of the natives & slavery laid the foundation to the birth & rise of US.

    As for the part abt Indonesia. Although Indonesia is by no means an angel when it comes to treatment its Chinese minority, but it has to be seen in the context of the overall situation of the nation. Extreme violence were common in Acheh, Timor, Christian-Muslim violence in Ambon, Borneo etc. I've seen many independent studies by SE Asian institutions that the Chinese killed there in the 60s were in the thousands out of hundreds of thousands of Indonesians of all races killed in that turbulent period. The west was of course very eager to exaggerate the numbers to divide & conquer.
    Don't forget Indonesia was screwed big time by the Dutch, creating tensions among the races.
     
  10. AssassinsMace
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    AssassinsMace Brigadier

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    I don't know how many people of other ethnicities were killed by the US supported atrocities in Indonesia. I'm sure it's alot too! I just know the figures for the Chinese killed go past a million. It's an ugly part of recent history that's being covered-up because the US was behind it needing Indonesian support in the Cold War.

    The Indonesian situation can also be linked to the atrocities of the opium trade. After the Opium Wars, the West shipped opium on Chinese merchants ships throughout Southeast Asia. When people there discover the treachery behind the opium trade, the West immediately pointed to the Chinese vessels shipping the opium falsely blaming China for their evils. Much of the hate of the Chinese in that region stems from those lies.
     
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