The Main-Armament Level Of Warships Entering Service

Discussion in 'Navy' started by Jura, Sep 28, 2017.

  1. Jura
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    Jura Lieutenant General

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    here's what's appeared on NavalTechnology most recently (LOL or I didn't notice earlier) under Trending:
    Tuo Jiang-Class Corvettes
     
  2. antiterror13
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    antiterror13 Major

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    perhaps not much better than PLAN Type 022 ... the capability is between 022 and 056
     
  3. Bhurki
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    Bhurki Junior Member
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    Considering its 16 anti ship missiles..
    Its actually quite above in offensive capability than either type 22 or type 56,
    They aim to fulfill the same role against mainland as the type 22 aim to fulfill against incoming USN, so endurance isnt a keypoint here, neither is long term defense.
    As a launching platform however, this ship has been designed to be used to its maximum and seems to be constructed by a russian engineer(pun intended).
     
  4. antiterror13
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    antiterror13 Major

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    if you only consider the number of AShM .. perhaps yes but thats not the only important factors. 2x Type 022 would have 16 AshM, would it make better than 056 ? ;)

    With your logic it would be better than 052C as 052C only has 8 AshM ? :p

    It has roughly 1/3 the weight of 056 and 2x of 022
     
  5. Bhurki
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    Bhurki Junior Member
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    Yes its better per every dollar and per tonnage for fulfilling policy objectives laid down for the ship by defense ministry.. That is, for stopping invading force of mainland including destroyers, roro ships, Lst etc by hit and run tactics.. In the concentrated space of taiwan strait, these missile boats will be deadly for any type of incoming force.
    Type 022 for china will kind of start seeming useless after a while, since there's actually no country that can try a land invasion of mainland. At best, they'll be used by larger ships as floating missile resupply docks which are actually able to launch missile themselves.. There is no designated policy objective that won't be fulfilled in absence of type 022..
    I understand you logic about size (and underlying endurance) but these are hit and run ships.. They are not suppossed to patrol for long duration. The only characteristics necessary for these are speed ( to chase a designated area or run from it), offensive projection( the more missiles, the merrier), tactical stealth( albeit secondary requirement, quite necessary when missile loadout hasn't been expended)
     
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  6. Tam
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    Tam Senior Member
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    In the concentrated waters of the Taiwan Straits, that's what littoral vessels like the Type 022 and 056 have to do, fight other littoral vessels like the Tuo Jiangs.

    Without some kind of aircraft cooperating with these boats, over the horizon engagement with HF missiles would be difficult, so PLAAF and PLANAF needs to take out Taiwan maritime aircraft or drones quickly, and once 'eyes' are lost, it would be light of sight engagement between all the littoral vessels.
     
  7. Jura
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    Jura Lieutenant General

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    F-110 Frigate https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/europe/f-110.htm
    fan art with 48 cells of VLS and 8 AShM tubes
    :
    [​IMG]


    inside officially looking (from Nov 1, 2018)
    PROGRAMA FRAGATE F-110 http://www.defensa.gob.es/Galerias/dgamdocs/programa-F110.pdf
    just 16 which is laughable considering like 7k displacement
    :
    [​IMG]


    "Segmento de guerra de superficie (ASuW), formado por la combinaciĆ³n de
    sistema de misiles SU-SU con capacidad potential STRIKE (ataque a tierra)
    optimizados para entorno litoral y cumpliendo las necesidades de este segmendo
    recogidas en los REM (tanto los inprescindibles como los deseables)"

    sorry if I mistyped (had to retype and I don't know Spanish);
    think I understand up to "REM" part

    anyone?
     
    #107 Jura, Dec 25, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2018
  8. gelgoog
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    gelgoog Junior Member
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    This F-110 Frigate program looks like an abortion.
     
  9. Tam
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    Tam Senior Member
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    Talking about the Navantia made frigates, their reputation took a beating with regards to the sinking of that Norwegian frigate, which is one of their products. Norway is blaming Navantia for flaws with the ship.

    http://www.maritimeherald.com/2018/...f-a-frigate-due-to-a-critical-design-failure/

    Australia has become worried about their Navantia made Hobart class ships.

    https://www.smh.com.au/politics/fed...lia-s-latest-3b-warships-20181204-p50k2f.html

    I wonder if this may affect the Navantia and General Dynamics bid for the USN FFG(X) competition.

    But good news for the company, as they take a contract for build 5 frigates for the Spanish Navy. This is in reference to the F110 frigate above.

    https://www.shephardmedia.com/news/imps-news/navantia-build-five-frigates-43-bn-euro-dea/

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F110_class_frigate

    The drop from 48 VLS tubes on the F100 to just 16 on the F110 seems drastic, if a bit extreme for a cost cutting measure. The 16 tubes will be using ESSMs, so quad packed, you still have 48 missiles but they won't have the range or punch of an SM-2, or the versatility of using ASROC.

    This seems to be part of the European trend of decreasing armament, namely for self defense only, leaving room aside of special operations and humanitarian missions.

    While cutting costs on the missiles, they are truly not cutting the costs on the radars, as they are planning to put AESAs, away from the AEGIS SPY-1D used on the F100 and Hobarts and the SPY-1F used on the F310.

    Navantia's marketing brochure on the F310. The mention of "damage control" here now seems awfully ironic.

    https://www.navantia.es/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/F310-r.pdf

    Navantia's marketing brochure for the F110.

    https://www.navantia.es/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/F-110-La-Navantia-del-siglo-XXI-4.pdf

    Alfa 3000 seems like it fills the same niche as the Type 054A and reminds me of one.

    https://www.navantia.es/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/ALFA-3000-1.pdf

    Alfa 4000 is another light frigate that might be proposed for Peru.

    https://www.navantia.es/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/ALFA-4000_Peru-2.pdf
     
  10. gelgoog
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    gelgoog Junior Member
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    Navantia has built several fine ships, made several nice ship designs, but this just does not seem to be one of those.
    The Juan Carlos is a nice ship design for example.
     

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