The Q-5, J-7, J-8 and older PLAAF aircraft

POKL said:

The same here. Such a light fighter is not meant for long range quasi – strategic strike with satellite guided gliding bombs or to battle it out in BVR air combat with Raptors. It would be more an ‘air sovereignty’ or an ‘air policing’ fighter. An aircraft meant to protect the airspace of a given country against various peace time threats or war against a low tech / limited capabilities enemy. Sometimes when you do not have an aerial asset with even a modest A2A capability they only thing you can do is to look up and watch as drug smugglers or terrorist do their nefarious things – buying an aircraft on the commercial market is not really a problem.

Click to expand...

Even if you want basic air policing fighter, you need something that could intercept passenger planes flying at 10 000m, at speeds in excess of 800-900 km/h . IMHO, this is the role where JL-9 could not replace Mig-21/J-7 and I explained why before .

As for stopping smugglers, even subsonic aircraft are good enough. for example, Peru successfully used Su-25 & A-37 against drug cartels.

This is becoming a silly addiction to me – and GAIEC should hire me for their marketing / PR department.

The JL 9 has a max speed of 1,5 Mach, can reach a ceiling of 16 000 m and last but not least it has an afterburning engine to give it a ‘kick’ – yet if it would be able or not able to intercept an airliner depends on a lot of factors such as for example: how far out the aircraft to be intercepted is or is the intercepted aircraft meant to be escorted and if so for how long?

And yes for intercepting for example a Cessna a subsonic aircraft would also do but granted speed may be needed if it has to be intercepted before it gets out of reach by entering the airspace of another country or if it is flown by terrorists and has to be shot down before it reaches a certain place for example a population centre – again many factors to be considered.

And of course the airspace is not ‘inhabited’ only be either slow & low light planes or fast & high airliners but again one could write a book about what can be encountered in the sky above and why the ability to make a supersonic ‘dash’ might be an advantage or contrary why a subsonic aircraft would be enough – volumes could be written with arguments for and against.

Let me also add that the JL 9 would not replace the MiG 21 / J 7 if for no other reason than because these two (or really one) aircraft were ‘real’ fighters for their time (which has long passed since) and the JL 9 / FTC 2000 is not meant to be such a thing.

So I will stick by mine assessment – the JL 9 could be a low cost / affordable solution for AFs with limited needs and limited potential threats to face. Of course one might point out, that there are many aircraft on the market which fit into the category of combat capable jet with no frills (these are in fact frequently armed trainers) and that is perhaps the main reason why the FTC 2000 found no export orders so far.

However what really interests me is why at all the JL 9 was adopted by the Chinese for their service and especially the JL 9G variant for carrier deck training is puzzling me. One reason I see is perhaps that with all the work & cost invested into the project and no export orders it had to be used domestically so that all the investment would not go down the drain.

I just stumbled across this "update" from Huitong regarding the upgraded J-7L from J-7E to a J-7G-equivalent/-similar status:

...Some have a VLOC antenna installed on the vertical tailfin. It was believed that some J-7Es were upgraded to the J-7G standard (as J-7L/J-7EG, S/N 10x4x, 21x5x, 83x8x) with a JL-7 PD radar and 2 MFDs in the cockpit as well as new dorsal and ventral UHF/VHF antennas.
...

Click to expand...

later in the J-7G section:

...This new variant features improved electronics including a new SY-80/JL-7 Falcon PD radar (Chinese copy of Israeli EL/M2001)...

Click to expand...

But that can't be ! The JL-7 was the original J-7C's radar and even if an improved version like used in the J-7D is IMO too large to be used in the G or now L ??
Even more I thought the G uses the KLJ-6E also known as SY-80 ! So why is the SY-80 now the JL-7 ????

Can anyone help me out ?

Deino

Again me with another Deino-style question:

While comparing J-7E, J-7EH, J-7G and also "said to be" J-7L I noticed that they differ most of all in their blade antenna behind the canopy: the EH used a long thin B-like antenna, the J-7E uses a wider not as tall one whereas the J-7G has an antenna with a small "thing" on top ... truly new is an antenna (image bottom left) similar to the CAC J-10A/AS ... so even if most images labeled J-7L show the wider antenna ... it seems as if the only true L is the one in the bottom left corner.

As such if indeed only this new antenna is on a J-7L then only the 14. Division and the 86. Brigade are flying this version.

Any ideas ???

Deino

Deino said:

Again me with another Deino-style question:

While comparing J-7E, J-7EH, J-7G and also "said to be" J-7L I noticed that they differ most of all in their blade antenna behind the canopy: the EH used a long thin B-like antenna, the J-7E uses a wider not as tall one whereas the J-7G has an antenna with a small "thing" on top ... truly new is an antenna (image bottom left) similar to the CAC J-10A/AS ... so even if most images labeled J-7L show the wider antenna ... it seems as if the only true L is the one in the bottom left corner.

As such if indeed only this new antenna is on a J-7L then only the 14. Division and the 86. Brigade are flying this version.

Any ideas ???

Deino

View attachment 11400

Click to expand...

Not to digress, what is the small rectangular opening at the wing root for? It is closed in some pictures and open in others.

I think a bleed-in intake ...

Deino said:

I think a bleed-in intake ...

Click to expand...

I thought bleed air is air bled from the engine compressor for any purpose, even for the stability of the compressor during some transients or power settings ( but that perhaps only in antique engines ).

POKL said:

I am a little surprised that the JL 9 / FTC-2000 did not get any export orders – at least I do not know of any. Also I am of the opinion that it could make a good affordable fighter aircraft for some African, Asian & Latin American AFs if a single seat version would be developed (not a real problem – delete one seat and fill the space with an additional fuel tanks or avionics). One thing it would have to get though to be of real combat value would be a PGM capability. There are a multitude of reasons for which in a modern conflict (even a low intensity one) you can not go without PGMs (I will elaborate on this in a separate post). Yet this capability can be obtained with relative ease & cost effectively by means of a targeting pod with TV / LTD.

?

Click to expand...

If you are looking for a fighter, the JF 17 is a better choice.

Between say, 24 FTC 2000 or 12 JF 17, I would pick the latter.

delft said:

I thought bleed air is air bled from the engine compressor for any purpose, even for the stability of the compressor during some transients or power settings ( but that perhaps only in antique engines ).

Click to expand...

I think what Deino refers to (although I never heard the term "bleed-in intake) is the option of having additional air feed into the engine in a high power, low speed condition. So far I only really knew of that feature in the Tornado. On the outside structure just aft of the intake, there's two small "cowlings" (don't know a proper term). They are springloaded to the closed position. Under a high power setting (much air demanded), but in slow speed (e.g. take off) the intake area is too small to allow enough air to come in. As such, there's a low pressure area in front of the compressor, sucking those doors open, allowing for more air to come in. At higher speeds, when ram air pressure actually supplies enough air, the low preassure area dissipates and the cowlings close.
Seems to be similar here on the J-7.

Yes, I was writing my reply a bit in a hurry yesterday and did not know the correct term, Sorry for any confusion.

Deino


PS: By the way any one with idea in regard to my J-7E and/or J-7L question ???