The Chinese Special Force Basic Training And Its Effectiveness?

Re: The Chinese Special Force Basic Trainning And Its Effectiveness??

lol cmon that's such a typical american bias, "When U.S Marines in Korea were melting the barrels on their machine guns repelling the Chinese hordes..." we need more professional arguments than that. like i said, the Chinese rarely conduct offensive during the day, you should actually go read up on their use of tactics rather than throwing around old cliches. your description of the "fighting" just gave it away. i serve in the military and your claim that soldiers as experienced as those who fought in the korea war (just came out of the civil war) have nothing better than the so called human wave tactic is an insult to all that serve in the army. if the Chinese can move 300000 troops across the yalu river and make macarthur believe that its only a small contingent of guerilla force, then they can do much much better than this human wave thing.

Re: The Chinese Special Force Basic Trainning And Its Effectiveness??

Judgement Day said:

Human wave attacks may not be something the Chinese are proud of, but they did happen. When U.S Marines in Korea were melting the barrels on their machine guns repelling the Chinese hordes, I'd call that a human wave attack. I have a firsthand account from a Marine who was in my fathers unit that was involved in a battle where they were repelling so many Chinese that the marine said he never saw an enemy soldier actually hit the ground while they were advancing. There were so many of them that as they shot them, the enemy just "faded away" to be immediately replaced by the next line of soldiers who were immediately shot, and replaced with the next line of soldiers and so and so on. Combat was fairly close in.

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If the "Chinese hordes" were so easy to slaughter, how come the almighty America-led coalition army with way superior firepower fail to defeat the Chinese? How come MacArthur was so panicky that he wanted to carpet bomb China's industry zone to choke off Chinese army? I trust you know Korea war is really Douglas MacArthur's Waterloo, do you? How come Korea became the forgotten war?

Re: The Chinese Special Force Basic Trainning And Its Effectiveness??

pla101prc said:

lol cmon that's such a typical american bias, "When U.S Marines in Korea were melting the barrels on their machine guns repelling the Chinese hordes..." we need more professional arguments than that. like i said, the Chinese rarely conduct offensive during the day, you should actually go read up on their use of tactics rather than throwing around old cliches. your description of the "fighting" just gave it away. i serve in the military and your claim that soldiers as experienced as those who fought in the korea war (just came out of the civil war) have nothing better than the so called human wave tactic is an insult to all that serve in the army. if the Chinese can move 300000 troops across the yalu river and make macarthur believe that its only a small contingent of guerilla force, then they can do much much better than this human wave thing.

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You have your reality and I have mine. Sorry if you feel insulted but facts are facts. Many of the captured Chinese prisoners in Korea were told they were defending Chinese territory.(Professional, experienced and motivated soldiers do not need to be lied to) As for the "experience" comment, there is only so much experience a poorly equipped, conscripted, peasant army can have. Mao and Stalin were both "the ends justify the means" guys and little regard was given to the life of the average citizen. Times have changed since Korea and you should be justifiably proud to serve in China's armed forces today.

I consider myself a loyal American and am generally proud of our military, but many of the alleged abuses at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq actually happened. It is a shameful episode for our army, but pretending it didn't happen does not mean it did not happen. Also, MacArthur never believed that it was only a small guerilla force coming across the Yalu. I recall reading that his statement to Truman was that the Chinese have "come in with both feet", which means he knew it was a large force. Most of the U.S. military archives have been declassified. If you get the chance, you might want to visit some of them. (by your user name I'm assuming the PLA is the military you are serving in. Sorry if I made an incorrect assumption.)

Re: The Chinese Special Force Basic Trainning And Its Effectiveness??

Judgement Day said:

Even with a volunteer military, though you might miss some creme de la creme, with a population of that size you should still be able to land some superior talent. I do recall reading where China was following some of the western militaries and going for quality over quantity....i.e., more high tech weaponry and better trained troops. As an aside, my father was a Marine Corps machine gun platoon leader in Korea and, although he rarely mentioned what he went through, did relate that he had to fight off some Chinese human wave attacks. He also mentioned that as they overran some Chinese positions that they found that some Chinese soldiers were staked or chained to the ground in such a way that they could not retreat. Apparently, the Chinese military has come a long way since then.

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you just repeated what i basically said. chinese military is downsizing their forces keeping only the best, and recruiting only the best or well educated college students.

chinese forces back then weren't push overs. they just lacked the support of air dominance, and vehicle escorts. in order to supress enemy from advancing, they had to force them back with man power. the field leaders did care for their troops and didnt recklessly charge without a decent plan. the main wave goes front on, while you got small waves flanking the sides.

Re: The Chinese Special Force Basic Trainning And Its Effectiveness??

victtodd said:

If the "Chinese hordes" were so easy to slaughter, how come the almighty America-led coalition army with way superior firepower fail to defeat the Chinese? How come MacArthur was so panicky that he wanted to carpet bomb China's industry zone to choke off Chinese army? I trust you know Korea war is really Douglas MacArthur's Waterloo, do you? How come Korea became the forgotten war?

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America had drastically demobilized after WWII and was initially caught with it's pants down. MacArthur wanted to nuke the Chinese, but was not allowed to. Let me add that I always considered MacArthur an arrogant prick and publicity hound, but he did have his moments. At that time and under those circumstances, we should have nuked the Chinese. (as an aside, we should have listened to Patton and attacked the Soviet Union at the end of WWII as well).

I do not want to come off as anti-Chinese. I was in China for a brief time back in 1987 and although there were some issues as a result of overpopulation, I found China to be a remarkable country with an incredible history and cultural heritage. I concur with MacArthur's suggestion to nuke the Chinese, not out of hatred, but out of tactical necessity. Again, to quote Patton..."it's not your job as soldiers to die for your country, it's your job to make the enemy die for his."

Korea became "the forgotten war" largely due to a failing, left wing liberal dominated public education system that teaches revisionist history and has produced at least two generations of students who are completely ignorant, have no pride in themselves or America and can barely wipe their own asses.

Re: The Chinese Special Force Basic Trainning And Its Effectiveness??

PrOeLiTeZ said:

you just repeated what i basically said. chinese military is downsizing their forces keeping only the best, and recruiting only the best or well educated college students.

chinese forces back then weren't push overs. they just lacked the support of air dominance, and vehicle escorts. in order to supress enemy from advancing, they had to force them back with man power. (agreed, you have to make due with the resources you have on hand, be it equipment or manpower) the field leaders did care for their troops and didnt recklessly charge without a decent plan. the main wave goes front on, while you got small waves flanking the sides.

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Re: The Chinese Special Force Basic Trainning And Its Effectiveness??

judgement day so far you provided no logical argument, no sound evidence, no objective viewpoint. all you have been saying is "well i am an american and we should've nuked China". i am not serving in the PLA. i serve in an NATO army, through my service i know more about your american army than you can ever learn. the truth is, even by american figures, the Chinese + DPRK casualty were roughly the same as the UN forces casualty, so i guess the UN employed this so called human wave thing too eh? as for "professional soldiers being lied to", you are taking that completely out of context, and you shouldnt be the one talkin considering how the poor american soldiers were lied to in the middle east. drop your arrogance and go back to reality mate.

Re: The Chinese Special Force Basic Trainning And Its Effectiveness??

pla101prc said:

i serve in an NATO army,

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Well, since you believe the start of this thread was actual special forces training, i must admit that I don`t believe you serve or have served.
Could you please specify?

Re: The Chinese Special Force Basic Trainning And Its Effectiveness??

Skorzeny said:

Well, since you believe the start of this thread was actual special forces training, i must admit that I don`t believe you serve or have served.
Could you please specify?

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i specified with bd popeye by providing a few detailed facts about army life that i know army fans would never pay attention to.

Re: The Chinese Special Force Basic Trainning And Its Effectiveness??

pla101prc said:

judgement day so far you provided no logical argument, no sound evidence, no objective viewpoint. all you have been saying is "well i am an american and we should've nuked China". i am not serving in the PLA. i serve in an NATO army, through my service i know more about your american army than you can ever learn. the truth is, even by american figures, the Chinese + DPRK casualty were roughly the same as the UN forces casualty, so i guess the UN employed this so called human wave thing too eh? as for "professional soldiers being lied to", you are taking that completely out of context, and you shouldnt be the one talkin considering how the poor american soldiers were lied to in the middle east. drop your arrogance and go back to reality mate.

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pla101, you only gave my posts a cursory read. There are eyewitness accounts by American soldiers of Chinese human wave attacks. They may have been few and far between, but some did happen. Your relative casualty count is rather pointless as it lacks the context of how the casualties were incurred. American soldiers were not lied to in the middle east. Some WMD's were discovered in Iraq and some were sent to Syria. Hussein's WMD program may not as been as large or sophisticated as originally believed, but he had a WMD program. So, you are in NATO and know more about the American army than I can ever learn? That statement may be correct as far as most of the American public is concerned, but it is not true in my case.

If you would like to state some deficiencies with the U.S. military, I would be glad to hear them, though I am probably already aware of them. I would also not mind you relating some positive experiences with NATO.