We saw the same thing with the PL-12 a few years back.
Zhuhai Air Show 2020
- Thread starter Deino
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Even at 145 KM it should be very competitive in the export field. Outside of Meteor and AIM-120D no other missile comes close.
Even at 145 KM it should be very competitive in the export field. Outside of Meteor and AIM-120D no other missile comes close.
Yes, it's definitely a competitive offering for the export market.
But my point is that this is an export product, and like other munitions with more "strategic potential" (including BVR AAMs, LR SAMs, capable Ashms), those sort of weapons typically are all sold with a handicap present that domestic variants don't suffer from.
Honestly it could be down to quite a few things.
Seeker, midway guidance, flight control software, motor configuration, propellant, or a combination of some of them.
This seems very competative with the 200km rumor of the domestic variant. In the end, the max range is unimportant. What is important is the NEZ. I guess with a dual pulse motor, its NEZ is considerably bigger than similiar ranged missiles without dual pulse, like the AIM-120D.
I can understand nerfing the ranges of YJ-18, YJ-62, tactical missiles, 370mm rockets, etc. because the domestic variants all exceed the 300km range limited placed by the MTCR (of which China not a member, but still largely abides by it since the late 1990s). However, when it comes to the previously assumed 150-200km range PL-15, there is really no need to reconfigure it to a shorter range. I don't recall Washington ever deliberately reducing the ranges of AIM-120 or Russian with the R-77 when exporting radar guided AAMs. I also remember some previous articles saying the range of the PL-15 is 150km max as opposed to 200, so the 145km max could make sense, albeit it is indeed disappointing to see such low range given the size of the AAM.
In the case of the US, they sell the latest and most capable variants of their AAMs to their closest allies only where close collaboration in wartime is not only likely but beneficial for them.
In the case of Russia, well in recent history they've been willing to sell certain high end systems to customers that even they themselves didn't have in service, but that is a reflection of their industry and military funding reality.
For China, not only do the above factors not exist, but they have an active rationale and historical precedent to not sell the most capable weapons they have in the same form to foreign customers to preserve a degree of technological secrecy but also to ensure they do not have to face a situation where they may have to ever face weapons that are competitive with their own.
The reason for limiting the range of their Ashms and MLRS and strike missiles is MTCR related yes.
Shiliao and friend's twice a week talk show, now in the field from Zhuhai:
Here's the one from late last week where he and Yankee were talking about it based on photos coming out before the show:
For all the confusion between WZ-7 and WZ-9 here's the story: they are in fact one and the same. The plane was originally named WZ-9 then renamed to WZ-7. Even Shiliao made the mistake of calling it WZ-9 in last week's show. In today's show he corrected himself.
Shiliao considers WZ-7 and WZ-8 to be something very similar to cold war era recon aircraft (U-2 and D-21, both are very familiar to China) that are compromised design that sacrifice some spec to boost other areas due to technological limit. WZ-7 was limited by its engine (old J-7 turbojet) so its weird wing design was a compromised solution in order to achieve the very high altitude target. The wings look very scifi but if you think about it it's basically a biplane, and they need to be like that to squeeze as much lift out of them as possible for available engine power. Similarly WZ-8 needed to achieve very high speed and altitude and they said on well, liquid rocket engine then.
Just how high can WZ-7 fly? In last week's podcast Shiliao told a story about this he heard from PLAAF. One day a WZ-7 was flying in SCS and USN sent up a F/A-18 to shoo it away. The drone operator saw the super hornet get into position directly below it so that it could definitely be seen and then it did a roll and was flying inverted for a while. The drone operator being bewilder by this called his CO over to check it out and his CO said "you know what he's trying to do, he's trying to intimidate you with his load of missiles. But that's as high as his plane can fly so he could only show you by rolling over."
Shiliao said CH-7 is in the same role as WZ-7, only with technology having improved to such a degree that no compromise is required to achieve its goals any more.
As for J-16D they've gone up to it in close proximity and are certainly very impressed by it. It takes a while to just count all the antennas coming out of everywhere on this plane and then once you're done and you stand back a bit to take it all in you realise just how complex piece of kit it is. Shiliao have a friend in this field who's also familiar with Russian EW equipment and he's quoted as saying "no Russian could come up with a plane like J-16D, not in this life or the next!"
Here's the one from late last week where he and Yankee were talking about it based on photos coming out before the show:
For all the confusion between WZ-7 and WZ-9 here's the story: they are in fact one and the same. The plane was originally named WZ-9 then renamed to WZ-7. Even Shiliao made the mistake of calling it WZ-9 in last week's show. In today's show he corrected himself.
Shiliao considers WZ-7 and WZ-8 to be something very similar to cold war era recon aircraft (U-2 and D-21, both are very familiar to China) that are compromised design that sacrifice some spec to boost other areas due to technological limit. WZ-7 was limited by its engine (old J-7 turbojet) so its weird wing design was a compromised solution in order to achieve the very high altitude target. The wings look very scifi but if you think about it it's basically a biplane, and they need to be like that to squeeze as much lift out of them as possible for available engine power. Similarly WZ-8 needed to achieve very high speed and altitude and they said on well, liquid rocket engine then.
Just how high can WZ-7 fly? In last week's podcast Shiliao told a story about this he heard from PLAAF. One day a WZ-7 was flying in SCS and USN sent up a F/A-18 to shoo it away. The drone operator saw the super hornet get into position directly below it so that it could definitely be seen and then it did a roll and was flying inverted for a while. The drone operator being bewilder by this called his CO over to check it out and his CO said "you know what he's trying to do, he's trying to intimidate you with his load of missiles. But that's as high as his plane can fly so he could only show you by rolling over."
Shiliao said CH-7 is in the same role as WZ-7, only with technology having improved to such a degree that no compromise is required to achieve its goals any more.
As for J-16D they've gone up to it in close proximity and are certainly very impressed by it. It takes a while to just count all the antennas coming out of everywhere on this plane and then once you're done and you stand back a bit to take it all in you realise just how complex piece of kit it is. Shiliao have a friend in this field who's also familiar with Russian EW equipment and he's quoted as saying "no Russian could come up with a plane like J-16D, not in this life or the next!"