Z-20 (all variants) thread

[lcloo]

I'm out of the loop here but the new heavy attack helicopter is based on the Z20?

Just my personal speculation, based on precedent of how AH-1 Cobra was developed from UH-1 Huey transport helicopter as well as South African Rooivalk attack helicopter developed from Aérospatiale SA 330 Puma transport helicopter.

Z20 is a 10 ton class helicopter with 2 X 2,000 KW engine, while AH-64 is also a 10 ton class with 1,409 kW T700-GE-701C (for AH-64A/D). Thus using Z20's power plant and other mechanism couple with a new body design for dedicated attack functional roles, this will shorten development timeline.

This is also similar in approach to development path of Y9 transport plane based on Y8, Z19 armed scout helicopter based on Z9, JL9 trainer jet based on JJ7 and Z-18 based on Z8.

 

[ChongqingHotPot92]

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Gunships like these are extremely vital during the D-Day over Taiwan or the blitzkrieg over Arunachal Pradesh. I believe each of the Z-20 could carry 10 special force troops. And the addition of WZ-10's armament suite (especially the 23mm cannon and the incendiary rockets) would be ideal in clearing the landing grounds before dropping off the heliborne infantry. Think of the US Army Huey helicopter during Vietnam War.

 

[by78]

Self-explanatory.

 

[by78]

The first batch of female pilots are being trained to fly the Z-20.

 

[NiuBiDaRen]

Just my personal speculation, based on precedent of how AH-1 Cobra was developed from UH-1 Huey transport helicopter as well as South African Rooivalk attack helicopter developed from Aérospatiale SA 330 Puma transport helicopter.

Z20 is a 10 ton class helicopter with 2 X 2,000 KW engine, while AH-64 is also a 10 ton class with 1,409 kW T700-GE-701C (for AH-64A/D). Thus using Z20's power plant and other mechanism couple with a new body design for dedicated attack functional roles, this will shorten development timeline.

This is also similar in approach to development path of Y9 transport plane based on Y8, Z19 armed scout helicopter based on Z9, JL9 trainer jet based on JJ7 and Z-18 based on Z8.

How will the attack function differ from that of the new heavy lift helicopter being jointly developed by Russia and China? Will that new heavy lift helicopter incorporate attack capabilities? How will the attack functions be divided among these two helicopters?

There are rumors that PLA will import Kamov 52s for the navy. Is that true and what will be PLA's plan for an attack helicopter heavier than Z10?

 

[gelgoog]

I am fairly certain China will only import the Ka-52 as an interim measure until a native naval attack helicopter is available. We saw naval tests with the Z-10 happen for several months. I assume something did not pan out properly and that is why they are purchasing the Ka-52. My guess is among other things the Z-10 might lack the power to carry large enough anti-ship missiles. Available Z-10 air-to-surface missiles are probably too small and lack destructive power against ships. The Ka-52 has almost twice the engine power of the Z-10. Then there is the fact the Ka-52 is already navalized and has things like folding rotor blades already available without needing to develop them. Since the Type 075 is being produced in numbers and is already in service they need something they can field with it sooner rather than later.

The Z-20's engines should have almost the same power as the ones used in the Ka-52. Using two of those engines should be enough to make a proper large attack helicopter.

The heavy lift helicopter being developed with Russia should be something in the range of the Mi-26 or the CH-53K. It will be a large transport helicopter and should have minimal armament if any at all. It does not make sense to use it as an attack platform I think.

 

[kriss]

to carry large enough anti-ship missiles

Capability to use of heli-borne ASM is of questionable importance. How often would someone send a helicopter against a ship? And among those case how often would it require a heavier ASM than let's say YJ-9 carried by Z-9? Even that's the case it would be better to let a Z-20 or Z-18 do the job than wasting a dedicated gunship which probably needed more elsewhere.

Then there is the fact the Ka-52 is already navalized

No it is not. Naval Ka-52 is yet to finish development and by the tracking record of russia there's a high chance it would not enter serial production earlier than whatever new naval gunship PLA would have developed.

 

[gelgoog]

Capability to use of heli-borne ASM is of questionable importance. How often would someone send a helicopter against a ship? And among those case how often would it require a heavier ASM than let's say YJ-9 carried by Z-9? Even that's the case it would be better to let a Z-20 or Z-18 do the job than wasting a dedicated gunship which probably needed more elsewhere.

The Ka-52K is being bought for use on the Type 075 LHDs. The YJ-9 missile you are talking about has a range of 15km and a warhead of 30 kg. It is only good against tank sized targets like small patrol craft. It will be useless against frigates or destroyers. The Kh-35V missile the Ka-52K can carry has a range of 260km and a 145 kg warhead.

No it is not. Naval Ka-52 is yet to finish development and by the tracking record of russia there's a high chance it would not enter serial production earlier than whatever new naval gunship PLA would have developed.

So you are comparing an aircraft which already has prototypes flying for years which is based on a proven airframe with a whole new aircraft and you think the whole new aircraft would be ready sooner?

 

[Temstar]

There's no need to be upset about any potential Ka-52 deal just because it's foreign. US also buys the Rheinmetall 120mm gun from Germany and FN Minimi from Belgium. No one doubts that US could do a program and come up with domestic alternative to them, but why bother when your allies make good quality equipment and is welling to sell to you at a reasonable price? That R&D money could be better spent elsewhere. Same logic here.

 

[Jingle Bells]

On the flip side. I think Ka-52K sale to China is nice because it could open a door for testing the 075's potential compatibility with Russian navy helicopters. If Ka-52K works well with 075, it could lead to the Russian considering buying or coproducing 075 with China. Giving the much faster production rate and much shorter procurement time for the 075, Russian might now have a entirely new option.

I know about the shipyards in Crimea contracted with building Russia's new LHD, but they are slow as hell. If Russians get down from their high horses and consider co-building 075, they could get 4 to 6 of these ship built and put into commission in the next 4 years.