Not exactly, although Mongol calvary is famous for its hit-and-run and ambush tactics with light calvary, it did have well-armored heavy calvary and use them wisely. In many battles particuliarly those against European lords, the Mongol army delivered their final lethal blow with their heavy calvary after they managed to wear down the European army´s momentum by eliminating its mobile units.
Yue Fei vs Genghis Khan
- Thread starter solarz
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Not exactly, although Mongol calvary is famous for its hit-and-run and ambush tactics with light calvary, it did have well-armored heavy calvary and use them wisely. In many battles particuliarly those against European lords, the Mongol army delivered their final lethal blow with their heavy calvary after they managed to wear down the European army´s momentum by eliminating its mobile units.
cliveersknell
New Member
Genghis is light years away from Yue Fei, cannot compare both, watch the Genghis Khan Tv series, 30 chapters. Very enlightening. English subtitle version available at Amazon.com.
sidewinder01
Junior Member
Dont know what is the use of comparing two peopple who lived so in different eras, commanded different armies, fought for different ethicity under different situations. One thing I know for sure is that Mongolians are very brutual and couragous, and they also have a bigger build than the most average Chinese people(possibly due to consuming mostly meat and diary product for their diet) But we all know the Brain is definitely more powerful than the Muscle.
Well simply because of the superior technology of the Song dynasty, especially archery.
The combination of pikes + crossbows are extremely difficult to overcome by Mongol cavalry.
The reason you don't see many major defeats on the Mongol side is because they are highly mobile, they can get out of the fight if the battle goes badly for them, but the same can't be said for the Song army.
If it was a fight to the last man then I would put my money on the Song, but if it was a hit and run combat including attacking civilian targets then I think Mongols would ultimately win.
The Jin was defeated largely because they were dominant for so long that their military started to slack off, in the end the Mongols could do everything the Jin can and better.
Another major contributing factor is that during the defeat of Jin the Mongols and Song actually allied with each other, this pretty much ended any chance of a Jin come back.
One thing the Song had over the Jin for defense was the "fire stick", which uses gunpowder to propel a small projectile(usually metal) through a long tube at high velocities for deadly impact. This weapon was probably the deadliest archery weapon at that time, it basically made it near impossible to attack the city without taking massive casualties.
Not sure about the middle east, I would think it was because they couldn't adapt to the tactics developed in the conflict of central and eastern Asia.
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cliveersknell
New Member
The Ming fought 25 campaigns against the northern yuan, the result is the massive defeat and slaughter of 500,000 men as well as the capture of the Zhengtong emperor at Tumu. Watch miniseries " 1449..." .
r's
Clive
r's
Clive
solarz
Brigadier
What does the Ming have to do with anything? Besides, the Yuan mongols were ultimately reduced back to petty warring tribes who were eventually annexed by the Manchu, descendants of the Jin. That's a pretty ironic turn right there.
Anyway...
One thing I've never been clear on is just how much did the Southern Song contribute to her own demise by helping the Mongols attack the Jin? Would the Mongols have had much difficulty conquering the Jin without Song's help?
Schumacher
Senior Member
Being a little selective and outright twisting of facts isn't it Clive ?
'The result is' ? As if that's the conclusion of Ming's campaigns against Northern Yuan.
And 500,000 men ? Did you just add another 0 to the figure, hoping no one will notice ?
Maybe you should read Yu Qian and how he dealt with the Mongol.
cliveersknell
New Member
The Mongols were absorbed by the Qing, and there was one great woman , Xiaozhuang, or Buumbutai, of the Khorchin Mongols, consort of Hong taiji, who became the most powerful person in the Qing after Hong Taiji's death. She became the mentor to Fu Ying and later to the great Kangxi, who was one of China's greatest emperors.
The Manchus by the way also adopted the Mongol script, rather than their old Jurchen or Jin script. So, you see the mongol legacy lived on till today.
Do a simple mathematical analysis, group all of China's dynasties as follows:
1. Group A- Qin, Han , Sui, Tang, Song, Ming, Republic of China
2. Group B - Yuan, Qing, PRC
You can see two distinct distributions. Beginning with the Yuan, you see China's present day borders beginning to come into shape, this was further reinforced by the Qing and later by the PRC.
GroupA never controlled territory beyond the great wall, Tibet, Xinjiang, Inner Mongolia, Manchuria, etc..
The name the Mongols chose for their dynasty " Yuan" is most appropriate, because here you have a phase transistion, hence a " new beginning " wherein China's size , shape and demography was set, the Ming lost it , the QIng regained it, ROC lost it, and PRC regained it. Food for thought.
r's
Clive
The Manchus by the way also adopted the Mongol script, rather than their old Jurchen or Jin script. So, you see the mongol legacy lived on till today.
Do a simple mathematical analysis, group all of China's dynasties as follows:
1. Group A- Qin, Han , Sui, Tang, Song, Ming, Republic of China
2. Group B - Yuan, Qing, PRC
You can see two distinct distributions. Beginning with the Yuan, you see China's present day borders beginning to come into shape, this was further reinforced by the Qing and later by the PRC.
GroupA never controlled territory beyond the great wall, Tibet, Xinjiang, Inner Mongolia, Manchuria, etc..
The name the Mongols chose for their dynasty " Yuan" is most appropriate, because here you have a phase transistion, hence a " new beginning " wherein China's size , shape and demography was set, the Ming lost it , the QIng regained it, ROC lost it, and PRC regained it. Food for thought.
r's
Clive
Schumacher
Senior Member
Right, so the Mongols were annexed by the Manchu.
But Clive, where's the answer to whether you just sneaked in another 0 into the 50,000 figure ?
But Clive, where's the answer to whether you just sneaked in another 0 into the 50,000 figure ?