is it confirmed that this is type 039C ? Or is it another type of submarine? Any information about its performance?
Yuan Class AIP & Kilo Submarine Thread
- Thread starter Jeff Head
- Start date
Thanks!!!
Hendrik_2000
Lieutenant General
Hard to tell from limited photo. it could be new class or design for export Blekinge supposed to be much smaller than Yuan at 2000 ton compare to 3600 ton for Yuan
Well the Blekinge class will likely the the X-style tail fins akin to those of the Soryu and Columbia classes. I wonder why the Chinese stick to the tradition tail fin designs for the new 039X.
Thats a big difference in terms of size. Has anyone been able to guess its size, based on the available photos and video?
Eh, who cares. If I was the PLA, I would hope they will continue to underestimate them like that.
I'm still waiting for the Drive writers to report on India's AMCA which is an even closer carbon copy (but exists only in PPT and plastic model form) to the F-22 and F35. Or India's loyal wingman ucavs which (two distinct model types) appear like exact copies of Boeing loyal wingman and the Kratos XQ-58.
Are they forgetting that the Blekinge is in development still? The Type 039C (assumed designation) has been completed. If the designers of the 039C copied the sail design, they copied the concept for the purpose of improving acoustic signature. It isn't a 1:1 copy of a still in development Swedish design, therefore at most the Chinese designers would require a total and complete understanding of the physics of why to perform the how because it looks like the same design concept purpose but are not identical in exact geometry. It may at worst be a conceptual copy... which btw is not unethical or even illegal. Plenty of copiers - USA is a great example of a copier in the past. The Soviets copied as much as they considered necessary. The Indians copy. The rest would copy if they had the industry.
Like the J-20 followed/ copied the Lockheed Martin conceptual approach to stealth design, the interior, the sub-systems, the design of every other component is not close to being identical. It can't be identical for it to work. But diamond shaped radomes? Yeah that's on the J-20 but guess where else it is? Su-57. AMCA. K-FX. T-FX. AZM. Japanese 5th gen concept. hmmmmmmmm why are all those guys copying? Chengdu's J-20 is arguably the most different 5th gen design out of the lot for starters it has a totally different layout which demands everything else about it to be unique from the Lockmart twin.
Why don't the Drive guys mention these copies?
US Ohio class ^
French Triomphant ^
Japanese Soryu ^
German Type 212 ^
Have they forgotten submarine pump jets designs are all the same from UK to Russia? If China used a cylindrical pumpjet like everyone else does, they would also have a whinge it's a copy. Sure but it's a working copy
guess what that means.
Are they forgetting that the Blekinge is in development still? The Type 039C (assumed designation) has been completed. If the designers of the 039C copied the sail design, they copied the concept for the purpose of improving acoustic signature. It isn't a 1:1 copy of a still in development Swedish design, therefore at most the Chinese designers would require a total and complete understanding of the physics of why to perform the how because it looks like the same design concept purpose but are not identical in exact geometry. It may at worst be a conceptual copy... which btw is not unethical or even illegal. Plenty of copiers - USA is a great example of a copier in the past. The Soviets copied as much as they considered necessary. The Indians copy. The rest would copy if they had the industry.
Like the J-20 followed/ copied the Lockheed Martin conceptual approach to stealth design, the interior, the sub-systems, the design of every other component is not close to being identical. It can't be identical for it to work. But diamond shaped radomes? Yeah that's on the J-20 but guess where else it is? Su-57. AMCA. K-FX. T-FX. AZM. Japanese 5th gen concept. hmmmmmmmm why are all those guys copying? Chengdu's J-20 is arguably the most different 5th gen design out of the lot for starters it has a totally different layout which demands everything else about it to be unique from the Lockmart twin.
Why don't the Drive guys mention these copies?
US Ohio class ^
French Triomphant ^
Japanese Soryu ^
German Type 212 ^
Have they forgotten submarine pump jets designs are all the same from UK to Russia? If China used a cylindrical pumpjet like everyone else does, they would also have a whinge it's a copy. Sure but it's a working copy
guess what that means.
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Wheels on F1 cars are pretty much so close they are almost exchangable. Wings, rockets, spacecraft, computer mice, microwaves.
Notice how these whingers are constantly on China's case. Only China. They don't care about others because others are not close to challenging their privileged position at the top. Not even close to being challengers. China is too worrying for them.
It took 3 days for whingers to start reporting on this little sail design. When there are countless examples of this sort of thing going on. They lack the depth of understanding of the details - the Chinese design being done around the same type as the Swedish one and at best/most copying the concept which would require the Chinese engineers to master the physics and the technology regardless. That's the hard part!
Copying and making something work is not easy because it always requires a total understanding and near complete mastery of every bit of required base science and specific technologies that are associated with it. The Soviets could copy well, the Americans, the Chinese etc. The Indians could not. They screwed up builds with given kits and total hand holding. Master the why before the how.
Unfortunately for China, it was the latest country to rise up and after it none have truly progressed anywhere close to how much China has. The initial efforts did and do require a lot of copying and propping up. China had the Soviet Union's initial friendship and alliance to thank for the first industry boost. Without learning, it is impossible to catch up. The west would prefer everyone stay away from learning and forever hold the reigns of power, focused exclusively in the hands of those who sit at the top of the capitalist chain in the west. Every single nation/empire/civilisation (well almost all and certainly the west) only ever got somewhere and caught up when behind because they learned a lot from others. In some cases, they learned and copied close to everything ... ahem Romans. It wasn't even that long ago when the western colonial powers competed and copied from each other. And produced countless propaganda which is silly and evil in hindsight.
In the past China was arrogant and assumed it was superior and was taught a harsh lesson by the west. Now it is the west that is supremely arrogant and assume it is faultless while China now realises there are lessons to learn in every corner and ideas to use. They want to call it stealing but if I know how it works, then it is no more exclusive to the first one to have done it. If that were the case, then the West should give up everything they did using Indian numerals, or Chinese paper ... ahem gunpowder? Once I learn how to do basic calculus from my high school maths teacher, that knowledge isn't exclusively hers. I may (and have) surpassed her mathematical knowledge even though 20 years ago that may not have been the case.
At one point in history, Chinese pagodas would have stood taller than any Anglo structure. Egyptian pyramids? Does that take anything away from 19th century American (majority Anglo descendents) building skyscrappers that put Chinese pagodas and Egyptian pyramids to shame in height? How silly it would be for a Chinese person to laugh at preliminary skyscrapper architecture being done in the west. How silly it would be for the westerner to laugh at Chinese efforts now. Forget that China leads telecomm and IOT technologies now.
Notice how these whingers are constantly on China's case. Only China. They don't care about others because others are not close to challenging their privileged position at the top. Not even close to being challengers. China is too worrying for them.
It took 3 days for whingers to start reporting on this little sail design. When there are countless examples of this sort of thing going on. They lack the depth of understanding of the details - the Chinese design being done around the same type as the Swedish one and at best/most copying the concept which would require the Chinese engineers to master the physics and the technology regardless. That's the hard part!
Copying and making something work is not easy because it always requires a total understanding and near complete mastery of every bit of required base science and specific technologies that are associated with it. The Soviets could copy well, the Americans, the Chinese etc. The Indians could not. They screwed up builds with given kits and total hand holding. Master the why before the how.
Unfortunately for China, it was the latest country to rise up and after it none have truly progressed anywhere close to how much China has. The initial efforts did and do require a lot of copying and propping up. China had the Soviet Union's initial friendship and alliance to thank for the first industry boost. Without learning, it is impossible to catch up. The west would prefer everyone stay away from learning and forever hold the reigns of power, focused exclusively in the hands of those who sit at the top of the capitalist chain in the west. Every single nation/empire/civilisation (well almost all and certainly the west) only ever got somewhere and caught up when behind because they learned a lot from others. In some cases, they learned and copied close to everything ... ahem Romans. It wasn't even that long ago when the western colonial powers competed and copied from each other. And produced countless propaganda which is silly and evil in hindsight.
In the past China was arrogant and assumed it was superior and was taught a harsh lesson by the west. Now it is the west that is supremely arrogant and assume it is faultless while China now realises there are lessons to learn in every corner and ideas to use. They want to call it stealing but if I know how it works, then it is no more exclusive to the first one to have done it. If that were the case, then the West should give up everything they did using Indian numerals, or Chinese paper ... ahem gunpowder? Once I learn how to do basic calculus from my high school maths teacher, that knowledge isn't exclusively hers. I may (and have) surpassed her mathematical knowledge even though 20 years ago that may not have been the case.
At one point in history, Chinese pagodas would have stood taller than any Anglo structure. Egyptian pyramids? Does that take anything away from 19th century American (majority Anglo descendents) building skyscrappers that put Chinese pagodas and Egyptian pyramids to shame in height? How silly it would be for a Chinese person to laugh at preliminary skyscrapper architecture being done in the west. How silly it would be for the westerner to laugh at Chinese efforts now. Forget that China leads telecomm and IOT technologies now.
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Just keep in mind how every single little thing about China is broadcasted ad nauseam. It takes hours and days for the whingers to get on China's case and during a slow news day, they'll make up shit or exaggerate things out of proportion. Imagine if this level of scrutiny and unfair portrayal was used on someone else. They could and have convinced the world that China is absolutely the worst country and worst place. Only bad things happen in China and the Chinese are the worst at behaving. Nothing bad happens or is done anywhere else except China and by those rich/powerful people that are enemies of the white working class! ... who are connected somehow to China anyway don't ask ... spies whatever!
It's made easy because China does copy. It does less of it now than it did in the past because it's developed its industries further away from that phase in its development. China is full of faults. It's government isn't perfect. So there's always something to complain about and be negative on but that's all the propagate and scrutinise to a comical degree. I hear crickets about human rights violations which make the worst Chinese ones look tame... these happen still all over the world including the US. I hear crickets about Indian attempts to copy concepts (doing their own innards as no one actually helps). I hear crickets about western spy activity and industrial espionage - against Japan in the past and Taiwan now. I hear crickets about plenty of western technology today being brought into existence by ethnic minorities.
It's made easy because China does copy. It does less of it now than it did in the past because it's developed its industries further away from that phase in its development. China is full of faults. It's government isn't perfect. So there's always something to complain about and be negative on but that's all the propagate and scrutinise to a comical degree. I hear crickets about human rights violations which make the worst Chinese ones look tame... these happen still all over the world including the US. I hear crickets about Indian attempts to copy concepts (doing their own innards as no one actually helps). I hear crickets about western spy activity and industrial espionage - against Japan in the past and Taiwan now. I hear crickets about plenty of western technology today being brought into existence by ethnic minorities.