Yuan Class AIP & Kilo Submarine Thread


broadsword

Colonel
Current UUVs that are routinely lost and fished up are wave gliders designed to be disposable.

China has been making a lot of breakthroughs with underwater communications that might make large sized UUVs viable with current AI. Especially if operating in the shallower parts of the SCS.

But this design is such a close match to the MC209 model sahureka posted that it’s almost certainly that.

That's just your speculation. It's a big leap to apply their breakthroughs on a sub of such scale. I suggest you read what the others have been discussing about this sub.

Is the MC209 unmanned?
 
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Daniel707

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The reason why I don't think it's a prototype is because of the sailess submarine they had earlier. The sailess sub is pretty much the same size, also single hulled, which is most likely a prototype/experimental platform. Why build two experimental sub of the same size, only 2 years apart. I see PLAN want something for the shallow waters within the first island chain. This can liberate the larger convential subs to patrol areas around the second island chain and indian ocean and gaining experience for the eventual long range patrol of the nuclear subs. China still have some Mings that want to replace. The yellow and east china sea only have a depth of 80 meters and not suitable for large submarine operation. The small sub is also useful to delivery frogman for special operations.

Not only that.

This kind of Subs also would be useful lurking in some vital narrow checkpoints across Philippines, Ryukyu, Indonesia, and South China Sea islands (Paracel & Spratly). IF there is some conflict with the US.

While Yuan Class (039A/B/C) goes to bigger seas & checkpoints and Nukes (093 & 095) goes to far Ocean.

Song class would act as second line of defence, Ming class already in the process of retirement
 

tphuang

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The new submarine is going to have pretty low endurance. I wouldn't try them in SCS at all. The shallow water in Yellow sea and some area for East China Sea maybe. Again, we have to wait and see what it's for.

They need to move on from Yuan class. It's their first kind of modern submarine around Kilo class in noise level. I think of it like the J-10 of submarines. But they really need to get to the next level in stealth at this point to compete with the more advanced Japanese subs. Something large and single hulled like Soryu class.
 

ansy1968

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The new submarine is going to have pretty low endurance. I wouldn't try them in SCS at all. The shallow water in Yellow sea and some area for East China Sea maybe. Again, we have to wait and see what it's for.

They need to move on from Yuan class. It's their first kind of modern submarine around Kilo class in noise level. I think of it like the J-10 of submarines. But they really need to get to the next level in stealth at this point to compete with the more advanced Japanese subs. Something large and single hulled like Soryu class.
@tphuang bro Soryu is a hybrid design incorporating both double and single hull?

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Aug 27, 2015 — The Soryu hull structure consists of six sections. ... from 1994 Oyashio class submarins adopted a hybrid single and double hull structure
 

Maikeru

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The new submarine is going to have pretty low endurance. I wouldn't try them in SCS at all. The shallow water in Yellow sea and some area for East China Sea maybe. Again, we have to wait and see what it's for.

They need to move on from Yuan class. It's their first kind of modern submarine around Kilo class in noise level. I think of it like the J-10 of submarines. But they really need to get to the next level in stealth at this point to compete with the more advanced Japanese subs. Something large and single hulled like Soryu class.
They could be based in Spratlys or Paracels. That would give them range to get to SCS choke points.
 

Daniel707

Junior Member
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This new subs definetly not a Midget submarine.

From what I see, this new subs slightly larger than Type 206 class. In the range of 600-1,000 Tonnes for sure.

Type 206 itself have 8,300 nautical miles endurance.

So kind of Southern Phillipines archipelago would be in the reach of this new subs. Especially, Chinese already establish string of Naval bases across South China sea to support their Operations there
 

AndrewS

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The new submarine is going to have pretty low endurance. I wouldn't try them in SCS at all. The shallow water in Yellow sea and some area for East China Sea maybe. Again, we have to wait and see what it's for.

They need to move on from Yuan class. It's their first kind of modern submarine around Kilo class in noise level. I think of it like the J-10 of submarines. But they really need to get to the next level in stealth at this point to compete with the more advanced Japanese subs. Something large and single hulled like Soryu class.

It's likely that higher performance lithium iron phosphate batteries have been in service with the Yuan since 2014.

With their battery specifications, you get 92Wh/kg, which compares to lead-acid batteries typically at 40Wh/kg.

You could take the 500ton Type-206A submarine as a rough equivalent to the new submarine. If you only replace the batteries, you would have 2.3x the battery power available.

That should be more than 1100km of range at 4knots on battery alone. That would be useful for the SCS.
 

tphuang

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@tphuang bro Soryu is a hybrid design incorporating both double and single hull?

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Aug 27, 2015 — The Soryu hull structure consists of six sections. ... from 1994 Oyashio class submarins adopted a hybrid single and double hull structure
Sorry if I wasn't clear. I am in favour of a hybrid model if it helps them with placement of sensors and such. I just think it's important in the area around the noise generating part of the submarine (engine room) to be single hull.
 

AndrewS

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Then why are they considered noisy?

I think the Yuan are considered pretty quiet, but the Stirling AIP does produce some noise when it is operating underwater.

Plus there are the hull hydrodynamics and perhaps the internals aren't rafted because the Yuan is too small?

There's not much written on the topic of submarines anywhere.
 

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