Visits to Naval Bases (pictures from those visits)


bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
Re: My trip to U.S. Naval Station Norfolk & Newport News Shipbuilding

but i count 11 carriers lost during WWII, 5 fleet carriers and 6 light aircraft carriers

5 fleet carriers
Hornet
Lexington
Princeton
Wasp
Yorktown

Princeton was a CVL a light carrier.. a loss none the less during the battle of Battle of Leyte Gulf on 24 October 1944.

the other CVs lost were Yorktown class CVs.. No Essex class CV's were lost during WWII.
 

Jeff Head

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Re: My trip to U.S. Naval Station Norfolk & Newport News Shipbuilding

a brilliant post Jeff! Thanks for that

but i count 11 carriers lost during WWII, 5 fleet carriers and 6 light aircraft carriers

5 fleet carriers
Hornet
Lexington
Princeton
Wasp
Yorktown

6 light carriers

Bismarck Sea
Block Island
Gambier Bay
Liscome Bay
Ommaney Bay
St. Lo

4 were killed by submarines
America's first carrier, the USS Langley, was also destroyed early in the war. She had been converted for use as a Seaplane tender at the time, but she will always be remmbered as America's first carrier and she was sunk during the war. That is number 12.

I have lists of them all, both US and Japanese, and when and how they were sunk.

The Japanese lost 16 or 17. I'll look tonight when I get home from work.

Pretty heavy losses on both sides of a very intense naval war.

franklin said:
110 carriers in 4 years that boggles the mind. And how did the USN train up so many crew and air men in such short time doesn't it take years and years to perfect carrier ops ? And the USN in june 1944 just 2,5 years after Pearl Harbor at the battle of the Philipinnes sea already made mince meat out of the Japanese navy. Where 15 US heavy and light carriers and 79 other ships and 28 subs vs 9 Japanese heavy and light carriers and 19 other ships and 24 subs in the world's largest naval battle.

Today one Nimitz class carrier has about the fire power of all of the 5 carriers of Europe put together if not more.
It is a testament to America's training program...which was very intensive and involved America's best. This was one area that doomed the Japanese (in addition to America's raw production power), the US pulled its best people back from the war front to train others coming up behind, both aviators and others. YThis allowed very experienced personnel to train up the new ones who then went into battle with other more experienced crew who were moved to those vessels too. The US had the raw manpower signing up after Pearl Harbor, and they put in place a building and training program unmatched and unequaled in the world.

As to taking time, the US at that date already had decades of experience operating carriers and was able to extend that knoweldge through their massive training program to the new recruits who then went to sea with a cadre of experienced NCOs to get them trough. They became experienced pretty quickly in the war time environment too.

A new fleet carrier took about 2-2 1/2 years to build, test and commission...and the US immediately began building a LOT of fleet carriers. Light and Jeep carriers were put out much quicker, 12-18 months.

So, 79 of the smaller and 31 of the larger in four years will tell you how many yards had to be in operation...and that doe not include the destroyers (undreds), the crusiers (scores) and the battleships...or the liberty transports which got to the point that they cpould be built in just a little over a day at a time.
 
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bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
Re: My trip to U.S. Naval Station Norfolk & Newport News Shipbuilding

To drive freely onto the base you would have to have either a military or official US government ID, or be the guest of someone on the base who has arranged for your visit..

And the "threat level" has a lot to do how tight security is at the gate.

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As an example the day after 09.11.2001 i was driving a rental car and was denied access to Naval Station San Diego.
 

asif iqbal

Lieutenant General
Re: My trip to U.S. Naval Station Norfolk & Newport News Shipbuilding

America's first carrier, the USS Langley, was also destroyed early in the war. She had been converted for use as a Seaplane tender at the time, but she will always be remmbered as America's first carrier and she was sunk during the war. That is number 12.

I have lists of them all, both US and Japanese, and when and how they were sunk.

The Japanese lost 16 or 17. I'll look tonight when I get home from work.

Pretty heavy losses on both sides of a very intense naval war.

It is a testament to America's training program...which was very intensive and involved America's best. This was one area that doomed the Japanese (in addition to America's raw production power), the US pulled its best people back from the war front to train others coming up behind, both aviators and others. YThis allowed very experienced personnel to train up the new ones who then went into battle with other more experienced crew who were moved to those vessels too. The US had the raw manpower signing up after Pearl Harbor, and they put in place a building and training program unmatched and unequaled in the world.

As to taking time, the US at that date already had decades of experience operating carriers and was able to extend that knoweldge through their massive training program to the new recruits who then went to sea with a cadre of experienced NCOs to get them trough. They became experienced pretty quickly in the war time environment too.

A new fleet carrier took about 2-2 1/2 years to build, test and commission...and the US immediately began building a LOT of fleet carriers. Light and Jeep carriers were put out much quicker, 12-18 months.

So, 79 of the smaller and 31 of the larger in four years will tell you how many yards had to be in operation...and that doe not include the destroyers (undreds), the crusiers (scores) and the battleships...or the liberty transports which got to the point that they cpould be built in just a little over a day at a time.

Also we have to remember this was war time and meant carriers were built with minimal time and effort, with war production materials, they were to serve for the duration of the war if they could do that they did what they were designed for and after all there was no need to over engineer them anyway, they were made fast and quick with resources kept at minimum but a remarkable achievement nevertheless

Nevertheless going back to carriers of WWII indeed Americans sustained heavy losses but were able to replace there's, but there are few carriers that I can't believe didn't go down they are

USS Bunker Hill
USS Franklin
USS Enterprise

Bunker Hill lost something like 40% of its crew and yet they still manage to save the carrier, all three were crippled and so heavily damaged two of them were never commissioned after the war, they were put into refit and sat out the rest of the war

Japanese just didn't have the damage control and the Kamakazi didn't really until battle of Okinawa knock out a full sized fleet carrier

Off the top of my head US had planned to commission 7 Essex class carrier in 1943 alone so even if Midway was a success for Japan they would still be facing a more powerful USN in 1943
 

bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
Re: My trip to U.S. Naval Station Norfolk & Newport News Shipbuilding

Actually 389 of her crew was lost or missing. 15% of her crew was lost.

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On the morning of 11 May 1945, while supporting the Okinawa invasion, Bunker Hill was hit and severely damaged by two suicide planes. Gasoline fires flamed up and several explosions took place. The ship suffered the loss of 346 men killed, 43 missing, and 264 wounded. Although badly crippled she managed to return to Bremerton via Pearl Harbor.

In September, Bunker Hill reported for duty with the Operation Magic Carpet fleet, returning veterans from the Pacific. She remained on this duty as a unit of TG 16.12 until January 1946, when she was ordered to Bremerton for deactivation. She was decommissioned into reserve on 9 January 1947.

She remained retired until she was disposed of in 1972.
 

asif iqbal

Lieutenant General
Re: My trip to U.S. Naval Station Norfolk & Newport News Shipbuilding

Thanks for correction I meant USS Frankiln not Bunker Hill which had 750 killed and 250 wounded worst carrier casualties of the war and that's the low end of the figure
 

Jeff Head

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Re: My trip to U.S. Naval Station Norfolk & Newport News Shipbuilding

US Navy Aircraft Carriers Sunk During World War II
US Carrier Name---Commission/Sunk Date---Comments
USS Langley (CV 1)---20 Mar 1922 / 27 Feb 1942---Conv. to AV 3; Sunk as a result enemy action 75 miles south of Tjilatjap.
USS Lexington (CV 2)---14 Dec 1927 / 8 May 1942---Sunk as a result of enemy action at the Battle of the Coral Sea.
USS Yorktown (CV 5)---30 Sep 1937 / 7 Jun 1942---Sunk due to enemy action at the Battle of Midway.
USS Wasp (CV 7)---25 Apr 1940 / 15 Sep 1942---Sunk due to enemy action southeast of San Cristobal Island.
USS Hornet (CV 8)---20 Oct 1941 / 26 Oct 1942---Sunk due to enemy action at the Battle of the Santa Cruz Islands.
USS Liscombe Bay (CVE 56)---7 Aug 1943 / 23 Nov 1943---Torpedoed off the Gilbert Islands. One struck her bomb stowage. 641 died
USS Block Island (CVE 21)---8 Mar 1943 / 29 May 1944---Torpedoed off of Canary Isl by German Sub. Only US carrier lost in the Atlantic.
USS Princeton (CVL 23)---25 Feb 1943 / 24 Oct 1944---Sunk due to enemy action in the Sibuyan Sea.
USS Gambier Bay (CVE 73)---28 Dec 1943 / 25 Oct 1944---Sunk by naval gunfire during Battle of Leyte Gulf by battleships & heavy cruiser.
USS St Lo (CVE 63)---23 Oct 1943 / 25 Oct 1944---Bombed during Battle of Leyte Gulf. Sunk the same day as the Gambier Bay.
USS Ommaney Bay (CVE 79) ---11 Feb 1944 / 4 Jan 1945---Sunk by a Kamikaze off of Mindoro, Philippines
USS Bismark Sea (CVE 95)---20 May 1944 / 21 Feb 1945---Struck by two Kamikazis off Iwo Jima. Sank in 90 minutes. Loss of 318 men

4 sunk by sub, seven sunk be aircraft, one sunk by naval gunfire.


Imperial Japanese Navy Aircraft Carriers Suk During World War II
Japanes Carrier Name---Sink Date---Commnets
INS Kaga---4 Jun 1942 Sunk after taking heavy damage from US carrier bombers at Midway
INS Soryu---4 Jun 1942 Sunk after US carrier bombs caused fires which reached her fuel tanks at Midway.
INS Akagi---5 Jun 1942 Scuttled after taking heavy damage from US carrier bombers at Midway.
INS Hiryu ---5 Jun 1942---Scuttled after taking heavy damage from US carrier bombers at Midway.
INS Ryujo---24 Aug 1942---Sunk at the battle of the east Solomon Seas by aircraft from the USS Saratoga and USS Enterprise
INS Chuyo---4 Dec 1943---Sunk by torpedoes from the sub USS Sailfish
INS Taiho---16 Jub 1944---Sunk after a torpedo from the sub USS Albacore
INS Shokaku---19 Jun 1944---Torpedoed and sunk by the sub USS Cavalla
INS Hiyo---20 Jun 1944---Sunk by torpedo from US aircraft in Philippine Sea
INS Taiyo---18 Aug 1944---Sunk by torpedoes from the sub USS Rasher
INS Unyo ---16 Sep 1944---Sunk by torpedoes from the sub USS Barb
INS Zuikaku---25 Oct 1944---Sunk by US carrier bombers in the Leyte Gulf operations
INS Chitos---25 Oct 1944---Sunk by US carrier bombers in the Leyte Gulf operations
INS Chiyoda---25 Oct 1944---Sunk by US carrier bombers in the Leyte Gulf operations
INS Shinano---29 Nov 1944---Sunk by the sub USS Archerfish
INS Unryu---19 Dec 1944---Sunk by the sub USS Redfish
INS Amagi---24 Jul 1945---Sunk by US carrier bombers

Seven sunk by submarines, 10 by aircraft.
 

asif iqbal

Lieutenant General
Re: My trip to U.S. Naval Station Norfolk & Newport News Shipbuilding

Fantastic list Jeff!

It means that out of the 29 carriers sunk 11 were sunk by submarine action, that's about 1/3 of all carrier losses just shows how versatile the submarine can be

Also I think Royal Navy lost around 5 aircraft carriers during WWII to submarines, U-boats were killing them in the Atantic

I think 4 aircraft carriers from Japan survived the war and around 4 were under construction when the war ended, Japan had poor ASW and carriers didn't have escorts towards the end of the war that's why we see so many losses to USN submarines towards the end of the war with 6 being lost in the final year of the war

Also I did not know Akagi and Hiryu were scuttled, it's a shame they didn't manage to save them

Japan tried like hell to sink as may carriers as possible often ignoring secondary targets like destroyers and cruisers, whereas US used total war tactic hitting any Japanese surface vessels from Carriers to tankers and transports
 

bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
Re: My trip to U.S. Naval Station Norfolk & Newport News Shipbuilding

IJNS Junyo survived the war. She looks totally intact in these photos taken by the USMC and US Army..

c136995.jpg


Junyo (Japanese aircraft carrier, 1942)

At Sasebo, Japan, 26 September 1945.
Two HA-201 class small submarines are alongside.

U.S. Marine Corps Photograph.

c136998.jpg


c136997.jpg


Junyo (Japanese aircraft carrier, 1942)

View looking Fore & aft from her island, showing the flight deck and after aircraft elevator. Photographed at Sasebo, Japan, 26 September 1945.
Two HA-201 class submarines are beached in the right background.

U.S. Marine Corps Photograph.

s218541.jpg


Junyo (Japanese aircraft carrier, 1942) A member of the ship's residual crew signals an approaching tug from the carrier's flight deck. Taken at Sasebo, Japan, 19 October 1945. Note this Japanese Signalman's bugle, and details of the ship's island. Photograph from the Army Signal Corps Collection in the U.S. National Archives
 

Jeff Head

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Re: My trip to U.S. Naval Station Norfolk & Newport News Shipbuilding

Fantastic list Jeff!

It means that out of the 29 carriers sunk 11 were sunk by submarine action, that's about 1/3 of all carrier losses just shows how versatile the submarine can be

Also I think Royal Navy lost around 5 aircraft carriers during WWII to submarines, U-boats were killing them in the Atantic

I think 4 aircraft carriers from Japan survived the war and around 4 were under construction when the war ended, Japan had poor ASW and carriers didn't have escorts towards the end of the war that's why we see so many losses to USN submarines towards the end of the war with 6 being lost in the final year of the war

Also I did not know Akagi and Hiryu were scuttled, it's a shame they didn't manage to save them

Japan tried like hell to sink as may carriers as possible often ignoring secondary targets like destroyers and cruisers, whereas US used total war tactic hitting any Japanese surface vessels from Carriers to tankers and transports
Those scutted at Midway were far too damaged to try and save. Doing so at that point would have resulted in putting more Japanese chips and personnel at risk of destruction and death...and would not have been able to save them. Towing them would have been so slow as to result in the same.

The same happened on a cupuple of instances with US Carriers. The USS Wasp, CV-7 for example was torpedoed in Sept 1942 near San Cristobal Island helping escort transports to Guadalcanal. She did not sink, but her list was terrible, her firefighting capabilities were ruined, and she sat dead in the water. In that case, the US sunk her using their own submarine and torpedoes.

754px-USS_Wasp_%28CV-7%29_burning_15_Sep_1942.jpg

Wasp, After being hit and burning, she was later sunk by US subs when it was clear she could not be slavaged.

The USS Hornet, CV-8, of the Tokyo Doolittle Raid fame, was another example. In October 1942, in the Battle of Santa Cruz Islands, She was severally damaged but not sunk and towed away from the battle, when she was attacked again. She still did not sink, but was clearly not slavagable. The US attempted top sink her and she absorbed another 9 torpedoes and 400 hits from 5 inch guns...still would not sink. When a Japanese surface force entered the area, the US withdrew and it took another 24 long lance Japanese torpedoes to do the job.

SantaCruzHornetSinking.jpg

Hornet listing and abandonned after final US attempt to scuttle her and before being sunk by JApanese torpedoes.

Hornet was the last fleet sized carrier sunk by the Japanese in World War II. AFter that, the rest were either light, or jeep carriers.
 

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