US Navy Patrol Frigate Design shown at DIMDEX by Ingalls

CottageLV said:

I think all USN ships should be styled after the Independence Class, what a work of art. This ship is now probably on the wall of every boy by now.

Click to expand...

This is a very expensive design and I don't consider the cost worth the benefit that could be achieved by simpler means.
Using the proven cutter design is a very cost effective approach that can compete with the LCS and replace escort ships.

Kurt said:

This is a very expensive design and I don't consider the cost worth the benefit that could be achieved by simpler means.
Using the proven cutter design is a very cost effective approach that can compete with the LCS and replace escort ships.

Click to expand...

In addition, they are already testing a new huull design that is alos very modern in the Zunmwalt DDG which may also be used for the eventual CGX.

I don't expect to see too much proliferation of the Independence design. They alread have a couple of other similar vessels in fast logistics vessels, but additional combatants are not as likely IMHO.

The Freedom class has some innovations of its own in the hull, though it is more traditional. But the new vessel shown here has take the path of imitating the US Coast Guard design, which is a very good, traditional hull. Although there is, in truth, also offerings from Lockheed and GD for LCS variants of the vessel too.

In the US Naval Institute Proceedings for this month they had a great discussion about the need for a new USN FFG in between the LCS and Burkes. They showed a proposal for a 4,500t FFG with the two Harpoon cannister launchers, an MK-41 VLS, a 76mm or 127mm main gun, a couple of 25-40mm auto cannons for secondary guns, a RAM launcher (21 cell variety) and a hanger for a full sized Lamps III helo.


That's a sweet looking FFG and something the US should build in some numbers IMHO. Better than the above mentioned and shown patrol ship proposals, IMHO too.

In essence, with the Type 54A the PLAN is already doing this over the last 6-7 years and are building more...as well as pumping out modern DDGs about as fast.

Jeff Head said:

In addition, they are already testing a new huull design that is alos very modern in the Zunmwalt DDG which may also be used for the eventual CGX.

Click to expand...

Wasn't that idea cancelled years ago, and the USN now plans to have arleigh burkes extended to a third flight to act as future "cruisers" equipped with AMDR?

----

Mhmm that is indeed a nice looking frigate, reminds me a lot of 054A and should be something the USN builds in mass -- however such construction would result in a smaller DDG force I think, which is not a bad thing. You don't need your principle surface combatants to all be equipped with SPY-1s or 96 VLS cells, or displace 9000 tons.

Personally I think arleigh burkes are a little too overpowered for the numbers the are in service in; a three tier system of 9-10k ton cruisers/ddgs and smaller 7000 ton ddgs, and 4-5k ton ffgs would be an optimal surface combatant composition for a large blue water navy imo.

Bltizo said:

Wasn't that idea cancelled years ago, and the USN now plans to have arleigh burkes extended to a third flight to act as future "cruisers" equipped with AMDR?

----

Mhmm that is indeed a nice looking frigate, reminds me a lot of 054A and should be something the USN builds in mass -- however such construction would result in a smaller DDG force I think, which is not a bad thing. You don't need your principle surface combatants to all be equipped with SPY-1s or 96 VLS cells, or displace 9000 tons.

Personally I think arleigh burkes are a little too overpowered for the numbers the are in service in; a three tier system of 9-10k ton cruisers/ddgs and smaller 7000 ton ddgs, and 4-5k ton ffgs would be an optimal surface combatant composition for a large blue water navy imo.

Click to expand...

The LCS are going to be built, at least 24 of them, and maybe 32, split between the two types. The new Burkes are going to be built as a bridge to the next generation CGs which are still on the drawing board. These will be larger, more heavily armed Burkes along the lines of the KDX-IIIs and will really be "bridge" cruisers.

What the US Navy is lacking is a future FFG combatant and this is the latest proposal to match the Partol Boat proposal from Lockheed shown early in this thread.

I like this design better. More heavily armed but still light. Using technology arleady in production but also allowing for some growth. IMO, the US should build a good 24 of these vessels. Then, with the LCS, a new FFG, the Burke DDGs and the newer Burks replacing the aging CGs, and with the new Virginia Class SSNs coming on, you have a very effective group of support combatants for the new San Antonios, America/Wasps and Ford class CVNs.

I'd like to see the US Navy build 24-30 modern AIP SSs as well for the Littorals. IMHO a Virginia is simply too expensive to risk there.

"Bridge" cruisers?

I'm not as up to date as others on USN ship development, but I'm quite certain the CG(X) based on zumwalt was cancelled, and the replacement would be flight iii ABs (in that time frame). Hasn't there even been suggestion of extending to a flight iv AB which will lead this type of ship well into the middle of this century?

¦^��: Re: US Navy Patrol Frigate Design shown at DIMDEX by Ingalls

Bltizo said:

"Bridge" cruisers?

I'm not as up to date as others on USN ship development, but I'm quite certain the CG(X) based on zumwalt was cancelled, and the replacement would be flight iii ABs (in that time frame). Hasn't there even been suggestion of extending to a flight iv AB which will lead this type of ship well into the middle of this century?

Click to expand...

The next flight Burkes will be the bridge. Still not clear how many of those will be built.

But something like the CGX will ultimately be designed and built.

It may end up being, in essence a Burke flight IV, but at that point, to incorporate the new tech developments and lessons learned at that time, the current hull and physical design mat constrain them too much.

Depending on the admin and congress, And depending on how the three vessels planned do, i would not be surprised to see more zumwalts built...and maybe ultimately a CG version for AAW yet.

Re: ¦^��: Re: US Navy Patrol Frigate Design shown at DIMDEX by Ingalls

Jeff Head said:

The next flight Burkes will be the bridge. Still not clear how many of those will be built.

But something like the CGX will ultimately be designed and built.

It may end up being, in essence a Burke flight IV, but at that point, to incorporate the new tech developments and lessons learned at that time, the current hull and physical design mat constrain them too much.

Depending on the admin and congress, And depending on how the three vessels planned do, i would not be surprised to see more zumwalts built...and maybe ultimately a CG version for AAW yet.

Click to expand...

While a future, larger CG(X) would be nice to accommodate new technology that will undoubtedly be available, the reason they are going for a third flight of arleigh burkes as cruisers are because of cost mainly (correct me if I'm wrong)?
Although there are questions already getting asked about flight iii burkes, with issues related to the ship's small space and apparently small size of AMDR to fit to the hull without drastically modifying it. But with the budget cuts they have to implement, added to the almost inherent rising costs and delays in recent US naval ship building, I feel like flight iii burkes are the only way to go if the USN wants cruisers to replace the ticos in the next decade or so.

A larger, zumwalt based/future CG(X) imho will not be seen for many years either from the USN or any other country, and zumwalt will be the largest surface combatants (apart from russian battlecruisers) for a while yet.

Personally I will be very surprised if more than three zumwalts are built; they're going to be great ships but very expensive and overkill when arleigh burkes are already the most potent DDGs in the world and there are already some sixty in service...

Re: ¦^��: Re: US Navy Patrol Frigate Design shown at DIMDEX by Ingalls

I can't believe I attended DIMDEX and yet I missed this...

¦^ÂÃ: Re: ¦^��: Re: US Navy Patrol Frigate Design shown at DIMDEX by Ingalls

Bltizo said:

While a future, larger CG(X) would be nice to accommodate new technology that will undoubtedly be available, the reason they are going for a third flight of arleigh burkes as cruisers are because of cost mainly (correct me if I'm wrong)?
Although there are questions already getting asked about flight iii burkes, with issues related to the ship's small space and apparently small size of AMDR to fit to the hull without drastically modifying it. But with the budget cuts they have to implement, added to the almost inherent rising costs and delays in recent US naval ship building, I feel like flight iii burkes are the only way to go if the USN wants cruisers to replace the ticos in the next decade or so.

A larger, zumwalt based/future CG(X) imho will not be seen for many years either from the USN or any other country, and zumwalt will be the largest surface combatants (apart from russian battlecruisers) for a while yet.

Personally I will be very surprised if more than three zumwalts are built; they're going to be great ships but very expensive and overkill when arleigh burkes are already the most potent DDGs in the world and there are already some sixty in service...

Click to expand...

With CGX I am talking twenty years from now. Depending on the admin and congress you could see new zumwalts, another 3-5 , starting in the 2014 budget.

NAVRECO, you got to DIMDEX? Outstanding. I would love to attend one.