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kwaigonegin

Colonel
The PRoblem with the A10 is not what it does but increasingly where it can do it. In Afghanistan The Taliban has limited air defences. No major SAM sites, no S 300, S400, S500 systems at best a MANPAD and some Heavy machine guns. For A10 that's perfect.
But change the situation up, in the First Gulf 6 A10's were downed, 4 known to have been SAMS and Manpads the remainder are suspected to have been SAMS.
Now A10 is to get rewinged and that's good but eventually, it's not going to be there.

The USAF brass has been trying to kill the A10 for decades but it still trudges on. It just speaks to the viability and capability of the airframe especially in the CAS role. The F35 as capable as it is still cannot match the A10 in terms of ordnance delivery and whoopass factor.

CAS still has to be delivered effectively at low levels otherwise a B1 would be the ultimate CAS airframe which it isn't. The F35 falls somewhere in the middle but still fall short.
 
The USAF brass has been trying to kill the A10 for decades but it still trudges on. It just speaks to the viability and capability of the airframe especially in the CAS role. The F35 as capable as it is still cannot match the A10 in terms of ordnance delivery and whoopass factor.

CAS still has to be delivered effectively at low levels otherwise a B1 would be the ultimate CAS airframe which it isn't. The F35 falls somewhere in the middle but still fall short.
LOL who would post if not me an A-10 is roughly five times cheaper than an F-35A, and who would post if not me
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cost roughly five times less than
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The PRoblem with the A10 is not what it does but increasingly where it can do it. In Afghanistan The Taliban has limited air defences. No major SAM sites, no S 300, S400, S500 systems at best a MANPAD and some Heavy machine guns. For A10 that's perfect.
But change the situation up, in the First Gulf 6 A10's were downed, 4 known to have been SAMS and Manpads the remainder are suspected to have been SAMS.
Now A10 is to get rewinged and that's good but eventually, it's not going to be there.
how does
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fit it?

I wonder if anything will ever come out of it, as it would mean further cost reduction from 4 minutes ago
= smaller USAF budget hahaha
 
Dec 20, 2017
now I read DDG-51 Program Office Preparing RFP for Next Multiyear Buy; Will Include Options for Additional Ships
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but it doesn't say much except the Pentagon doesn't have 2018 money yet

here's the text, anyway:
this is more specific:
Doubts linger as US Navy preps to order 10 more Flight III destroyers
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The U.S. Navy is poised to order 10 more destroyers this year, all of which will be the new Flight III variant that integrates Raytheon’s
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.

Congress is on the cusp of greenlighting a 10-ship buy that the Navy says saves 10 percent overall, essentially giving the service a free ship over the life of the contract. But 2017 saw a vigorous debate between the shipbuilders (especially from Bath Iron Works), some members of Congress and the Navy over questions concerning the Navy’s design progress and how much risk was acceptable for a multiyear contract for this major design overhaul.

Both Huntington Ingalls Industries and Bath Iron Works have signed on to build Flight III DDGs — DDG 125 will be the first one, built at Ingalls in Mississippi, followed by DDG 126 at Bath Iron Works — but questions linger about whether entering into a multiyear contract on what is almost a new class of ship invites delays and cost overruns.

The ship is being built for the air and missile defense radar, and fitting the system in the design required integrating a new electrical power system and about a 45 percent redesign of the class.

The Navy thinks it has done everything within its power to reduce the amount of uncertainty, according to Capt. Casey Moton, the DDG 51 program manager, most importantly through detailed 3-D modeling of the ship.

“When I say 3-D modeling, I’m talking about the pipe hangers, or the brackets on the power panels and the foundations for the equipment — I mean it is to the detail that the shipbuilder needed to build,” Moton said. “So we believe that level of maturity is more than sufficient for the builder and the shipyard to do a fixed-price incentive contract. We also think it’s more than sufficient detail to move to a multiyear.”

The Navy is also doing a bunch of testing — the AN/SPY-6 will soon be shipped to the Aegis testing facility in Moorestown, New Jersey, to begin integration with the new Baseline 10 software, Moton said. The back end hardware is already being tested with Baseline 9, he added.

The power and cooling systems are being tested in Hawaii with the AN/SPY-6, and both systems are working well. The major new components of the hybrid electrical system, the same kind of system used in the DDG 1000, are being shipped to the Naval Surface Warfare Center in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, for testing. (Those are the Leonardo DRS power conditioning modules, which convert AC power to DC, and the 4,160-volt gas turbine generators.)

The 3-D modeling is also being applied to the electrical system, Moton said.

“We did a very detailed 3-D model of the electric plant,” Moton said. “So we had already tested that model and we’d already done extensive testing of normal operations, casualty mode if, say, a system goes down.

“We’ve even done battle damage, taking a missile hit and figuring out [how] to restore the plant — we’re built to fight. We’ve already started making adjustments to the control software based on that testing, and that’s even before the first piece of equipment arrives in Philadelphia.”

As it stands today, Ingalls’ Flight III (DDG 125) will be the first to deliver in 2023, followed by Bath’s DDG 126 in 2024. Both of those ships were changes to already contracted ships. Bath will be later, Moton said, because the addition of DDG 127 —slated to be a Flight IIA — pushed its timeline back.

Lingering doubts

Analyst agree the Navy has taken measures to reduce the risk of cost overruns and delays. And yet some still doubt whether moving to a multiyear buy before even one ship gets in the water is a prudent idea.

Bryan McGrath, a retired destroyer skipper and consultant with The Ferrybridge Group, said that despite extensive modeling, the redesign complexity means the shipyards and the Navy don’t have a firm idea of how much the new ship will cost.

“Everyone is just sort of guessing what it will cost,” he asserted. “When the shipyards are bidding on a multiyear on a design that includes as much immaturity as this one does, they have to price that risk.

“One outcome is they overprice the risk and the taxpayers pay, or they underprice the risk and the taxpayers pay, or they get it right. But the reality is that these sort of risk calculations are difficult to get right.”

McGrath said he’s supportive of the program but that it would be best to first build a few to get an accurate idea of the costs.

“I am a big believer in the Flight III DDG and the direction it’s going, but the differences between it and the IIA are considerable. Substantial enough to warrant prudence, and that to me means each shipyard building at least a number of these successfully before we go to a multiyear procurement.”

Failure to do so will likely lead to grumpy exchanges before the Senate Armed Services Committee about cost overruns that were predictable.

“I can see a day where we have the DDG 51 program manager and the assistant secretary of the Navy for research and development called before the SASC, six to 10 years from now to answer for cost overruns that were wholly foreseeable given the risk of moving from a IIA to a Flight III,” McGrath said.

Thomas Callender, a retired submariner and analyst with the Heritage Foundation, acknowledged that bidding a multiyear before a single ship is built is unusual, but he added that the risks were worth the costs.

“The biggest benefit to the multiyear, the block buy, is you get the economy of scale,” Callender argued. “With long-lead items, the builders can buy them ahead of time. And for small vendors, for the subcontractors, it gives them the security to ramp up production. It provides them more security to plan and the Navy gets some additional savings there also.

“The downside is you are buying 10 of them before you even build one, but it’s not like we’re not going to buy them anyway if we don’t do it now.”

Delays in Congress

Doubts aside, the final approval of the Flight III multiyear is hung up in Congress, awaiting passage of the defense appropriations bill. The government is currently operating under a continuing resolution.

The House appropriators have passed its bill, but the Senate is yet to weigh in, save for the Senate Appropriations Committee Chairman Sen. Thad Cochran’s markup, which proposes 10 ships in line with U.S. President Donald Trump’s budget request.

That’s five fewer than was authorized under the 2018 National Defense Authorization Act, which passed in December.

All of this, however, is in flux because nobody actually knows how much money is going to be allotted for defense. And until that top line is established, it’s anyone’s guess what it’s going to be.

Trump’s much-touted $700 billion defense bill is nothing more than a congressional wish list until appropriators come up with the cash, which is some ways off pending a spending deal.

The current deal means the government has until Jan. 19 to strike a deal on the budget or another continuing resolution.

If all goes according to plan, Moton said, the award of the multiyear is on track for this summer. In the meantime, Ingalls is slated to begin fabrication of its first Flight III in May, he added.
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
how does
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fit it?

I wonder if anything will ever come out of it, as it would mean further cost reduction from 4 minutes ago
= smaller USAF budget hahaha
Answer It was views as a weapon to continue operations in the Asymmetric realm, basically to fill the same gap in the Permissive air zone, well also being a platform that could be handed over to the local government if stabilized. Much like how the F5 was used by the USAF then handed over to South Vietnam later of course in that case South Vietnam then fell apart and was conquered by the North. They can also be used as a replacement for OV10 Bronco which was also used in strikes in Iraq and are even older and less suited to non permissive
Farther more the OA-X program has been reduced to 15 Aircraft mostly as Trainers.
Right now in the World there is no Aircraft capable of doing what the A10 does, There are some that come close but it stands apart. that is both it's grace and it's sin.
In secured airspace against ground targets armored or soft it rules. but the second you throw major air defences in, The Attrition rate fares against it.
For that you would need something designed for a non permissive environment
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basically 2 tiers,
Tier 1 a cheaper platform or just keeping the A10 going.
Tier 2 is when the Squid its the fan. a Platform designed to fly in airspace with Air defences, as if you fly A10's there chances are you will be sending there pilots home under flags.
 

Jeff Head

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Dec 20, 2017

this is more specific:
Doubts linger as US Navy preps to order 10 more Flight III destroyers
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They are tryonmg to extend the FLight IOII program to cover for the coming loass of Tico AEGIS cruisers.

That's fine...but IMHO, the US and the Navy should bite the bullet and design the Tico replacement now.

Heck, put it on the hull of the Zumwalt, put the larger AEGIS system on that baby, make it a cruiser with battle management accomodations to allow the cruisers to control the battle

Also, with Naval Integrated Fire Control – Counter Air (NIFCA-CA) the FLight IIA, Flight III, and ne Cruisers can use airborne sensors, either E-2Ds, F-35s, or others like P-8s and especially Global Hawk of Triton to detect targets, either incoming missiles or any high value target, and then launch from one of those ships who have not seen it themselves and direct the anti-air or other type missile (LRASM, Tomahawk, etc.) weapon onto the target.

This is in addition to the Cooperative Engagement Capability (CEC) which allows the Tico cruisers and other AEGIS vessels to control the total war fighting picture of other ships weaponry.

With CEC and NIFCA-NC, and with the sensors (BTW, SPY-6 which will go onto the Burke IIIs is 35x more powerful than the AEGIS SPY systems in use on earlyier ships...and the US has already tested even more powerful systems but which equire larger vessels to operate...like the new cruiser would offer.

So, IMHO, a AEGIS Cruiser Zumwalt would look like this:

2 x Rail gun CIWS
2 x Laser CIWS
2 x Sea RAM CIWS
80 x Mk-57 VLS
128 x MK-41 VLS
2 x Medium-helos + 2 x UVAV in its large hanger
Towed Array
Large active sonar bulbous array

Such a vessel would allow the US Navy to maximize air defense, ASW defense, surface warfare, land attack, etc.

I'd like to see the Navy build at least 24 of these vessels...and the US could do so if it simloy found the will to do so in the fave of the modernization other nations are doing and the fact that the Ticos are going to go away over the next 15 years.

The design on the existing Sumwalt hull could be rapidly completed as studies for just this type of thing have already been done by the ship-builder.

Anyhow...this would be my dream of the CG replacement.
 
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TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
US suspends security assistance to Pakistan
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and
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  8 hours ago

By: Aaron Mehta and
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WASHINGTON – The decision by the U.S. to suspend security assistance to Pakistan could have serious consequences for the American-led fight in Afghanistan, and potentially further strengthen ties between Islamabad and China.

State Department Spokeswoman Heather Nauert announced new restrictions on Thursday that cover security assistance above and beyond the $255 million for Pakistani purchases of American military equipment that the administration held up in August, but it was not immediately clear how much money and materiel was being withheld.

Nauert made clear the $255 million was still blocked. The new action targets payments of so-called Coalition Support Funds that the U.S. pays to Pakistan to reimburse it for its counterterrorism operations. Those funds are typically paid later in the year, and already require U.S. certification, so the effect of Thursday’s announcement was unclear.

The move comes days after President Donald Trump’s New Year’s Day tweet that accused Pakistan of playing U.S. leaders for “fools,” as well as a growing number of voices from the administration that have complained Pakistan is not doing enough to combat militants targeting U.S. personnel in neighboring Afghanistan.



On Monday, Trump said the U.S. had “foolishly” given Pakistan more than $33 billion in aid in the last 15 years and had gotten nothing in return but “lies & deceit.” He reiterated longstanding allegations that Pakistan gives “safe haven to the terrorists we hunt in Afghanistan.”


The big question facing the American effort in Afghanistan now becomes whether Pakistan retaliates by shutting down the supply lines for materiel into Afghanistan, known as the ground lines of communication, or GLOC.

Hours before the announcement, Secretary of Defense Jim Mattis was asked if there were any signals from Pakistan that cutting the aid would result in the GLOC being closed, to which he responded, “we have had no indication of anything like that.”


But closing the GLOC remains a long-standing concern for the U.S. Those lines represent the cheapest way of getting supplies to U.S. forces in Afghanistan, something the Pentagon learned the hard way between Nov. 2011 and July 2012, when Pakistan shut the GLOC routes down following an incident where 24 Pakistani soldiers were killed by NATO forces along the Afghanistan-Pakistan border.



Reporting in 2012 revealed that costs for getting needed supplies into Afghanistan went from $17 million a month to $104 million a month, a significant upcharge even by Pentagon budget standards. With significantly fewer troops in Afghanistan today than in 2012, the costs would not be quite so high, but could still hurt a Department of Defense that finds itself lacking budget stability.

Alice Hunt Friend, an Obama-era senior adviser to the deputy undersecretary of defense for strategy, plans and forces and country director for Pakistan, believes a GLOC shutdown may be coming.



“Closing the GLOCs is certainly in the Pakistani playbook and would not be a surprising move,” she said. “It would make sense for Pakistan to do something to make the administration reconsider Pakistan's utility to the U.S., and that's a direct way to do it.”

Another potential result of cutting off aid could be to drive Islamabad to strengthen its relations with China.

Pakistan has for years tried to counterbalance its alliance with the U.S. with one from China, including with its military relationships. Industrially, Pakistan has agreed to work with China to produce a new submarine fleet as well as working together to develop what in Pakistan is known as the JF-17 jet fighter. In addition, China has developed the Azmat-class missile boat for Pakistan, which will carry Chinese-built weapons.

Notably, a Pentagon report from last June concluded that China will seek to
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, which would represent only the second People’s Liberation Army military facility outside of China

Associated Press writers Josh Lederman and Zeke Miller contributed to this report.
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timepass

Brigadier
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Too little....too late....

Pakistan wont bother with this, as effectively Pakistan is already out of that scenario that these actions will bother. In fact US cant afford to lose Pakistan support in particular the supply line.

I believe majority of this forum members are well versed & aware about the reality, hence just ignore these news as this is nothing but dirty politics.
 

timepass

Brigadier
Thank you, Mr. Trump!
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Pakistan is ditching the dollar for trade with China — 24 hours after Trump denounced the country

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|
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Published 14 Hours Ago Updated 11 Hours AgoCNBC.com
  • A day after President Donald Trump slammed Pakistan on Twitter, the South Asian nation announced it will replace the dollar with yuan for bilateral trade with Beijing
  • As U.S.-Pakistan relations grow increasingly strained, China has been pursuing closer links with the country
104927022-Capture.530x298.JPG

ASIF HASSAN/AFP/Getty Images
Just 24 hours after President
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took aim at
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on Twitter, the South Asian nation already appears to be cozying up to the world's second-largest economy.

A day after the U.S. leader slammed Islamabad for harboring terrorists
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, Pakistan's central bank announced that it will be replacing the
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with the
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for bilateral trade and investment with Beijing.

The same day, Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Geng Shuang defended Islamabad's counter-terrorism track record, saying the country "made great efforts and sacrifices for combating terrorism" and urged the international community to "fully recognize this."


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has been watching closely as U.S.-Pakistan relations become increasingly strained. Trump has long demanded the frontier economy to
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while he simultaneously
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.

"Pakistan and the U.S. have had a fraught relationship for years, but the big change recently has been China," said Simon Baptist, Asia regional director at the Economist Intelligence Unit. "China has really gone hard in cementing its existing relationship with Pakistan, it's really the only place that's seen significant investment under the Belt and Road initiative and China has been pushing for geopolitical advantage there."

Islamabad is home to one of Beijing's central infrastructure schemes, a near $60 billion collection of land and sea projects known
And with a steady stream of Chinese capital under its belt, Pakistan may no longer be receptive to American threats, the most recent of which involves Washington
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.

"Pakistan balks far less at reductions in American aid, which, as the former points out, has dwindled in recent years anyway. China, on the other hand, has promised Pakistan $57 billion in investments on infrastructure and energy under its Belt and Road Initiative," Madiha Afzal, a nonresident fellow at Brookings, said in a recent note. "All this means that America has far less leverage over Pakistan."

"The history of Pakistan's relationships with China and the United States also shows that Pakistan's policy does not respond to strong-handedness, but to loyalty, and to being treated with dignity," she continued.

For Beijing's part, a Monday editorial published by Chinese state-run news outlet Global Times said that "China and Pakistan enjoy an all-weather strategic partnership of cooperation, Beijing will without doubt not give up on Islamabad."

Regardless of
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— Foreign Minister Khawaja Asif recently dismissed Trump's outburst as a political stunt — the two nations are expected to continue cooperating this year.

Ultimately, Washington needs Pakistani cooperation to address its concerns about
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and
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, Baptist said, adding that it remains to be seen if Trump's social media tirade will translate into real policy change.

 

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