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Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
I would think this system has some bigger problems considering its history of a lot of failed tests. In my opinion this kind of BMD is not reliable enough as an insurance against North Korea but on the other hand forces China to update its nuclear missiles or increase their number to maintain a somewhat reliable second strike capability.
I think it is. There are three layers to the US BMD system...and all of them are deployed.

You have the AEGIS BMD at sea, you have these mid-course interceptors like these spoken of, then you have the terminal phase in THAADS and Patriots.

For a nation like Korea or other rogues who could only launch very small numbers, and with the success rates they have had...I am very confidant we have a system that gives us a far, far better chance than anyone on earth of avoiding such a nuclear strike by such a country.
 

schenkus

Junior Member
Registered Member
I think it is. There are three layers to the US BMD system...and all of them are deployed.

You have the AEGIS BMD at sea, you have these mid-course interceptors like these spoken of, then you have the terminal phase in THAADS and Patriots.

For a nation like Korea or other rogues who could only launch very small numbers, and with the success rates they have had...I am very confidant we have a system that gives us a far, far better chance than anyone on earth of avoiding such a nuclear strike by such a country.

I agree that the combination of BMD systems gives you a relatively good chance of avoiding a nuclear strike from a force like north koreas, but I think that nuclear missiles capable of reaching the US would still weigh very much on decision makers minds in a crisis: even if the risk is small you would not want to put Kim Yong Un in a situation where he thinks he has to use his nuclear weapons.

So long as this reasoning holds, nuclear weapons still have a lot of value for a "rogue state" to prevent "regime change" by outside actors.
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
I agree that the combination of BMD systems gives you a relatively good chance of avoiding a nuclear strike from a force like north koreas

I think that nuclear missiles capable of reaching the US would still weigh very much on decision makers minds in a crisis: even if the risk is small you would not want to put Kim Yong Un in a situation where he thinks he has to use his nuclear weapons.
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No doubt...but the issue I was responding to was whether or not the US BMD program can provide a successful defense...and I think it can against someone like North Korea.

Of course the US...or anyone else for that matter... is not going to go poking him in the eye to force a launch.

That's not why the system was built. It is built with the idea that people like him, and certain other leaders of rogue or very extremists nations or factions, might be so irrational as to launch for little or no reason.
 

kwaigonegin

Colonel
No doubt...but the issue I was responding to was whether or not the US BMD program can provide a successful defense...and I think it can against someone like North Korea.

Of course the US...or anyone else for that matter... is not going to go poking him in the eye to force a launch.

That's not why the system was built. It is built with the idea that people like him, and certain other leaders of rogue or very extremists nations or factions, might be so irrational as to launch for little or no reason.

Personally I'm more worried about suitcase bombs or dirty bombs detonated here stateside than from ICBMs or some other rockets from faraway places but yes those multilayered ABM defenses are obviously made for saturated missile attacks or rogue type missile launches. those I believe can be easily countered as well especially to my knowledge folks like NK etc don't have MIRVs.
 

schenkus

Junior Member
Registered Member
Personally I'm more worried about suitcase bombs or dirty bombs detonated here stateside than from ICBMs or some other rockets from faraway places but yes those multilayered ABM defenses are obviously made for saturated missile attacks or rogue type missile launches. those I believe can be easily countered as well especially to my knowledge folks like NK etc don't have MIRVs.

I don't think "easily countered" is the way I would describe it (this sounds like >95% success of interception), I would rather choose "likely countered" (>50%).
 

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
I don't think "easily countered" is the way I would describe it (this sounds like >95% success of interception), I would rather choose "likely countered" (>50%).
Sorry, schenkus, those figures of anything close to 50% just do not hold.

With the three layers, and with the probability of more than one launch at an incoming, it will actually be, for individual attacks, something far greater than 50%...probably well over 90% that the warhead will be destroyed.

Remember, we are not talking about how many missiles it takes to down an incoming, we are talking about whether it is downed at all. In the end, that is all that matters.

It is likely, at each stage they develop a solution, that they could and would launch more than one missile at an incoming RV.

If the mid-course attempts miss, they may well get attempts with AEGIS. If both of those miss, they may well get attempts with THAADS or PAC2.

In the end, the likelihood is quite high that the US BMD will down incoming rogue onesy/twosy missile attacks.

But this has gone well beyond US Military News and is Off Topic.

Let's Get Back On Topic Here
 

TerraN_EmpirE

Tyrant King
Fencer buzzing USS ROSS Black sea.
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– MAY 31, 2015POSTED IN:
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USS Ross (DDG 71), forward-deployed to Rota, Spain, is on a routine patrol conducting naval operations with allies and partners in the U.S. 6th Fleet area of operations in order to advance security and stability in the
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.

Ross observed the routine flights of SU-24 aircraft and had no interaction while both operated in international waters. Ross continued on her mission after observing the aircraft return to base. At no time did Ross act aggressively nor did she deviate from her planned operations. The conduct of her crew has been and continues to be professional.

The U.S. Navy operates ships in the Black Sea on a routine basis, consistent with the Montreux Convention and International Law.

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US Army rolls out Plan to field new Uniforms
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New Marine task force for Central America will use JHSV
By Hope Hodge Seck, Staff writer7:51 p.m. EST March 2, 2015
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A new Marine task force set to become active in Central America in time for hurricane season will use a new seabasing platform — the joint high-speed vessel — to transport troops around the region.

Special Purpose Marine Air-Ground Task Force-South, a unit comprising about 250 Marines to be headquartered at Soto Cano Air Base, Honduras, will answer a range of needs ranging from partner nation training to humanitarian assistance and counter-drug missions. It's set to become active in June.

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At a Washington, D.C. event in late February, Assistant Commandant Gen. John "Jay" Paxton said the new land-based unit may also make use of new Navy platforms designed to fill gaps in amphibious shipping.

"We're going to work with the Navy to see if there are single ship steamers that are available. We'll look at alternate platforms ... JHSVs and things like that," Paxton said. "We're working through not only the demand signal and the mission sets that [U.S. Southern Command Commander Gen. John Kelly] has but the capability and of the Navy and Marine Corps team for providing that."

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Marines with a security cooperation team work with local marines in Puerto Barrios, Guatemala, to simulate a house clearing. Marines deploying to Central America this summer will conduct partnership training exercises. (Photo: Mike Morones/Staff)


Lt. Col. Ignacio Soria, chief plans officer, G-5 for Marine Forces South, confirmed that task force Marines were set to be transported on the JHSV Spearhead, the first in its class.

"It is planned right now," he said. "The only thing that would derail that is if for some reason there was some emergent need that required Fleet Forces Command or Military Sealift Command to divert the mission."

Soria said the task force, which will send small detachments of Marines to locations throughout Central America, highlights the primary purpose of the JHSV: intra-theater lift.

"It literally lifts the Marines from port to port in the [area of responsibility]," he said.

While plans now call for use of just the Spearhead, another vessel — the Burlington — could also be stationed in the 4th Fleet region sometime prior to fiscal 2017, pending a final decision, Soria said.

It's not the first time Marines will make use of the JHSV in theater. The Spearhead provided transportation to Marines from Camp Lejeune's 8th Engineer Support Battalion from May to October of last year in support of Southern Partnership Station 2014, according to a March report from the Marine Corps Center for Lessons Learned. The vessel, which divides its time between SOUTHCOM and Europe and Africa, has also been used by other Marine detachments in the region.

SPMAGTF South will also be equipped with four CH-53E Super Stallion Helicopters when activated, said Capt. Armando Daviu, a spokesman for MARFORSOUTH. The Marine units that will send personnel to the task force have not yet been identified, he said, but they are expected to come primarily from II Marine Expeditionary Force, headquartered in North Carolina.

Paxton said the demand for SPMAGTF-South was tied to the successful creation of Marine crisis response task forces for Africa and the Middle East in recent years, joking that "no good deed goes unpunished." Because of finite resources, he said, the task force would be different and smaller than the other response units, but fine-tuned to the needs of the region.

"We are committed to tailoring some type of task force, and they are training right now, that would be able to do those missions that Gen. Kelly needs, primarily building partnership capacity ... and some counter-narcotics, counter drug mission capability," Paxton said. "We're committed to provide that to him."

According to current planning, the task force will be active between June and November before redeploying to the States until the following spring. Its work will augment that of small Marine detachments already in the region, including a civil affairs team in Belize, and security cooperation teams in Honduras, El Salvador, Belize and Guatemala.
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Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
The Spearhead Class JHSV are going to be very versatile and useful vessels.

Five have already been delivered, a sixth is launched, and the other four are building.

I bet we end up building more than ten if it keeps going over so well.
 
I'll put it into this high-tech thread :)
AF Chief Scientist: Air Force Working on New Hypersonic Air Vehicle
Scientists with the Air Force Research Laboratory and the Pentagon’s research arm are working to build a new hypersonic air vehicle that can travel at speeds up to Mach 5 while carrying guidance systems and other materials.

Air Force Chief Scientist Mica Endsley said the service wants to build upon the
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of the X-51 Waverider 60,000 feet above the Pacific Ocean in May of 2013.

Endsley said the Air Force and DARPA, the Pentagon’s research entity, plan to have a new and improved
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by 2023.

“X-51 was really a proof of concept test. It showed that you could get a scram jet engine, launch it off an aircraft and it could go hypersonic. It was able to go more than Mach 5 until it ran out of fuel. It was a very successful test of an airborne hypersonic weapons system,” Endsley said.

The 2013 test flight, which wound up being the longest air-breathing hypersonic flight ever, wrapped up a $300 million technology demonstration program beginning in 2004, Air Force officials said.

A B-52H Stratofortress carried the X-51A on its wing before it was released at 50,000 feet and accelerated up to Mach 4.8 in 26 seconds. As the scramjet climbed to 60,000 feet it accelerated to Mach 5.1.

The X-51 was also able to send back data before crashing into the ocean — the kind of information now being used by scientists to engineer a more complete hypersonic vehicle.

“After exhausting its 240-second fuel supply, the vehicle continued to send back telemetry data until it splashed down into the ocean and was destroyed as designed,” according to an Air Force statement. “At impact, 370 seconds of data were collected from the experiment.”

Endsley added that the next-generation effort is not merely aimed at creating another scramjet but rather engineering a much more comprehensive hypersonic air vehicle.

“What they are trying to do now is build the whole system so that it is not just about the engine. You have to have materials that can operate at the kind of temperatures you have when you are going at hypersonic speeds. You have to have guidance systems that will function when you are going at those types of speeds. There are a bunch of technological challenges that have to be addressed to make a functioning system that will work,” she said.

The new air vehicle effort will progress alongside an Air Force hypersonic weapons program. While today’s cruise missiles travel at speeds up to 600 miles per hour, hypersonic weapons will be able to reach speeds of Mach 5 to Mach 10, Air Force officials said.

The new air vehicle could be used to transport sensors, equipment or weaponry in the future, depending upon how the technology develops.

Also, Pentagon officials have said that hypersonic aircraft are expected to be much less expensive than traditional turbine engines because they require fewer parts.

Recognizing the countries like China have been testing and developing hypersonic missiles, Pentagon and Air Force officials see hypersonic flight as integral to the future.

“Certainly, the U.S. is not the only country involved in developing hypersonic weapons. They are showing a lot of capability in this area. The advantage of hypersonics is not just that something goes very fast — but that it can go great distances at those speeds,” Endsley added.

She explained that hypersonic flight could speed up a five hour flight from New York to Los Angeles to about 30 minutes. That being said, the speed of acceleration required for hypersonic flight precludes the scientific possibility of humans being able to travel at that speed.
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the future of Growlers ...
US Air Force eyes next-gen electronic warfare, not Boeing jets
The U.S. Air Force on Monday said it aims to meet electronic warfare needs using next-generation aircraft such as Lockheed Martin Corp's F-35 fighter and a new long-range bomber, rather than older planes like Boeing Co's EA-18G Growler.

Air Combat Command Commander General Herbert Carlisle said the F-35 offered "some pretty impressive" electronic warfare capabilities - consisting of jamming enemy signals to make it easier for warplanes to bomb targets on the ground and other offensive actions - though he gave no details.

Carlisle said a bomber for which a contract will be awarded in coming months, and the associated "family of systems" to be rolled out in coming years, would also give the Air Force new electronic warfare capabilities.

"With the limited (budget), you've got to think harder about buying brand new legacy airplanes versus the next generation as we go forward," Carlisle told reporters after an event hosted by the Air Force Association booster group.

The comments come as Boeing is trying to secure enough orders to keep its F/A-18E/F and EA-18G fighter lines running in St. Louis. Congress is poised to add funding for 12 more jets, but the budget measures have not yet been finalized.

The Navy order, together with a likely Kuwait order for 28 jets, should keep the production line open into 2019.

U.S. Navy officials have said they have enough Boeing EA-18G Growlers to meet their own needs, but that a Navy-led study of the needs of the other services could generate demand for more of the jets for the Air Force and Marine Corps.

However, neither of the services have endorsed that view, and a Navy-led study of the joint needs has not been released.

Carlisle said he had not been fully briefed on the study, which was completed this spring, but his preference would be to opt for newer, next-generation aircraft like the bomber or F-35.

Carlisle said he expected the Air Force to pick a winner in the bomber competition in July or possibly August.

Boeing and Lockheed have teamed up to compete against Northrop Grumman Corp, builder of the B-2 bomber, for a contract valued at $50 to $80 billion.

Lieutenant General Jon Davis, the top Marine in charge of aviation, has also expressed skepticism about the need for more Growlers, citing the capabilities offered by the F-35.
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