US Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

lych470

Junior Member
Registered Member
Just goes again to show how you'd really have to be either suicidal or utterly cynical to be a US military planner these days. The delightful choice between a frigate with 052D displacement and nowhere near the capability for a gorillion dollars, and whatever this pitiful tragedy is for not quite a gorillion. How is any sane person supposed to make decisions like that?

It's quite easy if you are taking kickbacks from the MIC and don't care about the actual capabilities.

The fact is, the US just need to appear powerful against non-peer adversaries. That's why the US dares to fly its jet into Venezuela but not, say, within 12mn of Chinese islands in the South China Sea. When push comes to shove the US will actually tuck tail and run. See Operation Prosperity Guardian.
 

HighGround

Senior Member
Registered Member
It's quite easy if you are taking kickbacks from the MIC and don't care about the actual capabilities.

The fact is, the US just need to appear powerful against non-peer adversaries. That's why the US dares to fly its jet into Venezuela but not, say, within 12mn of Chinese islands in the South China Sea. When push comes to shove the US will actually tuck tail and run. See Operation Prosperity Guardian.
The US is powerful against non peer adversaries… A mere handful of countries field anything that can credibly hurt a US CSG.
 

AlexYe

Junior Member
Registered Member
How is any sane person supposed to make decisions like that?
Easy the sane people are let go or dont become 'decision makers' the kickback guys and the drug addicts are in charge now, see head of department of war
the US just need to appear powerful against non-peer adversaries.
This, so much this. Past 40-50 years us has only tackled enemies waayyy behind in things (and even then lost in many cases)
 

siegecrossbow

Field Marshall
Staff member
Super Moderator
Just goes again to show how you'd really have to be either suicidal or utterly cynical to be a US military planner these days. The delightful choice between a frigate with 052D displacement and nowhere near the capability for a gorillion dollars, and whatever this pitiful tragedy is for not quite a gorillion. How is any sane person supposed to make decisions like that?
But it probably beats 052D and maybe even 055 in quantity and quality of fire extinguishers and water proof doors.
 

siegecrossbow

Field Marshall
Staff member
Super Moderator
Speaking of which, how many years have we been waiting for that "explanation article" coming out of Mr X already by now?

If you saw this poll at some point the you’d know to temper your expectations.
 

Lethe

Captain
Winston Churchill once observed that the Americans can always be trusted to do the right thing, once all other possibilities have been exhausted. One could argue that going back to the Legend NSC as was previously considered and rejected for the FFG(X) requirement fits Churchill's description: the right choice, just a decade (or two, or three) late.

Beyond the specific failings of the Constellation program, I think it's worth considering the broader context of its demise. Or rather, the context of its birth and what that implies about the context of its demise.

From a certain perspective, that of seeking a 21st century FFG-7, Constellation was always an odd choice, being derived from the largest, most capable and no doubt most expensive of the candidates evaluated. One could rationalise the selection by arguing that technology, requirements and design standards had evolved over time such that, actually, this was indeed a rather modest ship (and also by observing that, actually, FFG-7 was never that modest), but those arguments were never entirely convincing. If you wanted a 21st century FFG-7, the Legend NSC pitch was always the more natural fit. USN clearly didn't want an FFG-7.

At the time, USN was in the midst of re-evaluating its future inventory structure:

“Today, I have a requirement for 104 large surface combatants in the force structure assessment; [and] I have [a requirement for] 52 small surface combatants,” said Surface Warfare Director Rear Adm. Ronald Boxall. “That’s a little upside down. Should I push out here and have more small platforms? I think the future fleet architecture study has intimated ‘yes,’ and our war gaming shows there is value in that.”16

“The FSA may actually help us on, how many (destroyers) do we really need to modernize, because I think the FSA is going to give a lot of credit to the frigate—if I had a crystal ball and had to predict what the FSA was going to do, it’s going to probably recommend more small surface combatants, meaning the frigate … and then how much fewer large surface combatants can we mix?” Merz said. An issue the Navy has to work through is balancing a need to have enough ships and be capable enough today, while also making decisions that will help the Navy get out of the top-heavy surface fleet and into a better balance as soon as is feasible. “You may see the evolution over time where frigates start replacing destroyers, the Large Surface Combatant [a future cruiser/destroyer-type ship] starts replacing destroyers, and in the end, as the destroyers blend away you’re going to get this healthier mix of small and large surface combatants,” he said—though the new FSA may shed more light on what that balance will look like and when it could be achieved.17

The key point is that, at the time Constellation was selected, the future frigate was envisioned as actually replacing some existing DDG-51 destroyers (basically, the Flight Is) as part of a broader rebalancing of the surface combatant inventory, rather than simply supplementing that existing structure with additional hulls. Whatever the merits of that objective, a shift of that nature would inevitably ruffle some feathers -- doubly so if you were proposing to replace them with a reheated LCS. From this perspective, Constellation was the largest step down from the DDG-51 baseline that the Navy was willing and able to stomach in pursuit of numbers. This perspective also helps to explain the otherwise perverse insistence on endless design changes that were so obviously hostile to the project's core objective of bringing a mature design into service on budget and on schedule.

By extension, the end of Constellation and the rebirth of the Legend NSC suggests that these ideas have been substantially overturned. DDG(X) is in the long grass, DDG-51 production extends out to the horizon, and now we return to a more modest small combatant that will exist in the same structural relationship to the larger ships in the inventory as LCS was always intended to.
 
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