US Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

TerraN_EmpirE said:

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The F15EX will carry equipment intended originally for the so called Golden Eagles a number of F15C and Ds that had been intended to serve out to 2040. However 10% of the F15C and D fleet are grounded and 75% have flown beyond intended life cycle already leading to the new buys. It’s the same rationale that justifies the bulk of the Russian Airforce buys of SU35 and MiG 35.

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The Russians are buying the Su-35 and MiG-35 because they didn't have any other choice really.
They designed the Su-57 with the intent it will replace their high-end fighters. Not complement them.
They designed the Su-57 to be easily serviceable like their current fighters. They do not apply RAM mats on the surface of the aircraft and have easy to access panels like older aircraft. This is part of the reason why US 5th gen aircraft are so expensive to service.
But mass production of the main production Su-57 type might be 5 years away.

What is Russia's current estimated production rate of Su-57? The production variant (initial) has long been out for months and months and months. I would imagine that mass production is capped more by funding allocated to the project than it has with the means of expanding existing production lines and optimising everything.

They are actually being sensible in not overspending where they can't/shouldn't. Su-57s are great and all but not worth sinking or delaying other projects for the sake of.

They're buying more Su-35 and Mig-35 just like the same reason why China is buying more J-16 and something like modernised H-6 or US is buying more F-15EX. They serve a function. It's very hard and expensive to develop an aircraft. Once done, usually that alone is a monumental half century worthy achievement. They function and work well for intended tasks and nothing superior is truly ready to replace them. H-6 is a great example. Without it, what's going to lift and launch single stage to orbit test vehicles? What will air launch ballistic missiles and HGVs? What will carry four YJ-12s or full sized land attack cruise missiles with thousands upon thousands of kilometers of range? The JH-7 can't. The Y-20 can't. No Il series or Y series in China could. The B-52 is a larger and more flexible equivalent. It's still around as well. The AK-47 isn't any less deadly when its bullet hits compared to an FN-2000.

Besides the Su-35 and Mig-35 are genuinely great planes. Still unsurpassed in plenty of domains. No 5th gen fighter can fly at the Mig-35's speed and altitude. No 5th gen carries as much payload and has as much range as a Su-35. If they are upgraded with modern subsystems and weapons, they are at the very edge of fighter capability just without the stealth aspect which is why most of PLAAF, USAF, and RuAF, is still modernised 4th gens and all three keep building them despite having at least one 5th gen already in production.

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gelgoog said:

The Russians are buying the Su-35 and MiG-35 because they didn't have any other choice really.
They designed the Su-57 with the intent it will replace their high-end fighters. Not complement them.
They designed the Su-57 to be easily serviceable like their current fighters. They do not apply RAM mats on the surface of the aircraft and have easy to access panels like older aircraft. This is part of the reason why US 5th gen aircraft are so expensive to service.
But mass production of the main production Su-57 type might be 5 years away.

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Right, your point?
The F15EX is being bought as the F15 is aging out without a proper high end fighter to gap fill since cancellation of the F22 and With Sixth Gen still not flying till the 2030 span. F35 is a strike fighter the lower end platform. Sounds pretty much the same as the Mig35? Forced to buy as an equivalent mission platform is no where near production well the existing platform is aging out.

ougoah said:

Besides the Su-35 and Mig-35 are genuinely great planes. Still unsurpassed in plenty of domains. No 5th gen fighter can fly at the Mig-35's speed and altitude. No 5th gen carries as much payload and has as much range as a Su-35. If they are upgraded with modern subsystems and weapons, they are at the very edge of fighter capability just without the stealth aspect which is why most of PLAAF, USAF, and RuAF, is still modernised 4th gens and all three keep building them despite having at least one 5th gen already in production.

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Ahh sorry but I think you are confused. F22 beats MiG 35 in service ceiling and matching speeds. You might have meant MiG 31. I’ll let you have your claims SU35 but only if you caveat that that’s with external tanks reducing mission Lethal payload.

gelgoog said:

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That's an LRIP, at least from the American and Chinese POV. I would like to see if they even keep to that, though. The Russians have had a bit of a rough time with this program.

However, this is the US military thread.

As for my Lame Duck comment, it's a double meaning. I'm sure TE knows, but just in case others do not, a lame duck is a term used for political entities that are in power, but the elections have already taken place and the current politicians are going to be replaced. They're there and can still pass laws (if Congress) or execute their office until their replacements are sworn in. However, long term, well, anything is out the window. That's why I called the Eagle II a lame duck. It's a short termer, a stop gap, and, tbh, kinda lame for the other reason, too.

That reason is the industrial policy has been bad for a while in the US. I'd venture to say for 30, 40 years, honestly. Long term investments by the gov into many pieces have been ignored in place of trusting the market. The market is great for immediate resource allocation. It's terrible for long term planning. This has been an issue regardless of what political party was in charge.

Anyways, yes, the F-35 has been problematic with its development. It has made good progress lately. However, when there was signs of issues, the F-22 and the F-15 ought to have been continued when those problems were encountered and/or the F-35 scrapped. That's not what happened and here we are. That's not what happened and the situation the US is in is pretty lame, IMNSHO.

I doubt it’s a lame duck as it was Congress who pretty much pushed for it. The USAF pointed out the F15 service life issue and felt around for F16V as an alternative to the mission. Congress particularly former USAF gave them a walk of shame. So the USAF had to go back to Congress with another option. They shopped Lockheed Martin and Boeing. Lockheed Martin was pushing a hybrid F22/F35, Boeing was all about F15. With a hybrid F22/35 not realistic without sacrificing Sixth generation, starting from scratch and having to tell congress they were the idiots that we know them to be. F15EX was the most realistic option. It was the government planning the political class who pushed the seeds for this.
F22 production close was idiotic but it was political types from two administrations who said it was no worry. Though they got the Su57 right they got J20 wrong when they said that F22 wouldn’t have an actual in service rival until after 2025. Next F15 did continue just not for US orders just as F16 did and will resume.
The reason for the slow pace of US delivery of F15EX start is as the production line for F15 was demanded to finish for Saudi F15SA 84 units delivered Qatari F15QA 36 on order first unit delivered April last year last unit planned late this year early next? So 1 unit delivered 1 in building 3 pending with 76 by FY25.
The real boner move was Congress who ordered no Export F22. That meant that when the Bush administratio planed the end and Obama administration followed suit on that plan. game over. F35 was then accelerated to gap fill based on the assumption that without a 5 Gen peer till far latter. The lower end strike fighter F35 made more sense to fighting against forces without air superiority fighters and high end IAD. However within the next two years Gates claims were proven faulty. 2009 the vote to kill. 2010 T50, 2011 J20. Both those were still rough. Today though T50/SU57 is still not ready. But J20 is catching up in numbers.
What should have happened in my opinion was that F22 should have been carried to the 360-380 mark with as opposed to the less than 200 then allowed to export to Japan, Australia and Israel whom showed interest. With F35 in parallel. Had that happened F15EX would never have been needed. That was if more high end F22 were not be called for the USAF could have added orders to the line building F22J, F22Au, F22I perhaps F22K ecta. F35 might have slowed some but more issues worked out in X35 or low batches than now. And B21 might have been delayed a bit but as we don’t have need just yet no issue. Sixth Gen might have been pushed to 2030+ as opposed to trying to rocket it into 2025.

TerraN_EmpirE said:

Right, your point?
The F15EX is being bought as the F15 is aging out without a proper high end fighter to gap fill since cancellation of the F22 and With Sixth Gen still not flying till the 2030 span. F35 is a strike fighter the lower end platform. Sounds pretty much the same as the Mig35? Forced to buy as an equivalent mission platform is no where near production well the existing platform is aging out.

Ahh sorry but I think you are confused. F22 beats MiG 35 in service ceiling and matching speeds. You might have meant MiG 31. I’ll let you have your claims SU35 but only if you caveat that that’s with external tanks reducing mission Lethal payload.

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Haha yes I realised early on after posting it but thoguht most people surely would know I mean Mig-31... got it confused with 25. Ahh where's my focus at.

A bit odd. E-4B on it’s way to Israel.

ougoah said:

Interesting the destination is Israel. Isn't the E-4B the US doomsday command plane? Shows who the real bosses are

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E-4 also serves as SecDef's preferred means of transportation... That said recent SecDefs have been travelling more on the C-32 (757 VIP model) because of lower cost of operation than the E-4. However the E-4 has more range than the C-32 and doesn't require a fuel stop in between crossing the pond and trecking across the continent into the Mediterranean/Middle East.

crash8pilot said:

E-4 also serves as SecDef's preferred means of transportation... That said recent SecDefs have been travelling more on the C-32 (757 VIP model) because of lower cost of operation than the E-4. However the E-4 has more range than the C-32 and doesn't require a fuel stop in between crossing the pond and trecking across the continent into the Mediterranean/Middle East.

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And here she is.
photo from

Why travel by E4B? Among the functions of the Sec Def he is the second man in the two man rule of US nuclear weapons deployment. If you could open the American nuclear football there is no Shiny red button rather a batphone. The POTUS calls Sec Def who in turn agrees or disagrees. If the latter then the president can fire him and call on the generals. The E4B allows the Secdef to remain in contact with DC and offers both range and facilities for his staff,