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Max Demian

Junior Member
Registered Member
@Jura

Missed your link. The first unit will indeed come out more expensive. But looking after that, we can see in FY21: $842M for the subsequent unit.
 

Gloire_bb

Junior Member
Registered Member
Well that and it could only be used by the F14. F14 was aging out. Hornets could not carry the Phoenix.
It was planned as the weapon of choice for intercepts for superbug as well.
But Congress went "why do you need long-range missile you can't even employ to the fullest when you have such a nice AMRAAM?"
 

Max Demian

Junior Member
Registered Member
@Jura
The USNI article states that $950 million is the threshold cost. In the comments section, a poster claimed the following (from Navy SCN budget request):
FY20 SCN Budget calls for ~$1.2B for 1 FFG(x) - first in class production
FY21: $842M for 1 FFG(x)
FY22: $1.75B for 2 FFG(x)
FY23: $1.79B for 2 FFG(x)
 

Jura

General
@Jura
The USNI article states that $950 million is the threshold cost. In the comments section, a poster claimed the following (from Navy SCN budget request):
FY20 SCN Budget calls for ~$1.2B for 1 FFG(x) - first in class production
FY21: $842M for 1 FFG(x)
FY22: $1.75B for 2 FFG(x)
FY23: $1.79B for 2 FFG(x)
a gullible public is the target group of any "budget request" info

what matters is if something is, or isn't, a program of record

EDIT in simple words:
No Money, No Honey
 
Last edited:

Jura

General
here comes an interesting story
Shipbuilding Industry Struggles to Recruit And Retain Workforce
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The shipbuilding and repair industry is facing increasing challenges from an aging workforce, lack of stability in the contract workload and a problem convincing young Americans that shipyard work is essential and well-paying, industry officials said.

The search for new shipyard workers must overcome the constant pressure for high school graduates to go to college, as well as the lack of experience in today’s youth in the kinds of skills the industry needs, a panel of shipyard officials and engineers told the American Society of Naval Engineers’ annual Technology, Systems & Ship symposium on Thursday.

Todd Hooks, general manager of BAE Systems Ship Repair yard in Jacksonville, Fla., said the average age of his workers is 55 and that his skilled managers are retiring. Workflow fluctuations at the yard only aggravate his hiring and retention. In recent years, Hooks had 2,200 workers coming through the gates, then months later was down to 1,500 workers, and then staffing needs would go back up as demand from the Navy fluctuated.

“We can’t have that. … We need a stable workforce,” Hooks said. The challenge of getting and keeping trained workers will only get harder as future ships and their combat systems grow more advanced and therefore need different skills to maintain and modernize them, he added.

The policy of many high schools not welcoming industry recruiters hampers their ability to attract new workers, he said. High schools, he added, are more interested in getting every student into college, although less than one-third attend, Hooks said. The industry has the problem of getting the message out that the shipyards provide good-paying jobs. Then, when they get new workers, the industry has trouble keeping them because many do not come back after they are laid off during a drop in workload, he said.

William Crow, president of the Virginia Ship Repair Association, said the Norfolk-based institute is attacking the need for skilled workers with the support of its 286 member companies and financial support from the state of Virginia and the federal government. Illustrating the importance of the industry, Crow said there were 43,000 employees in the Norfolk shipyards, contributing $6.4 billion to the state’s economy and earning an average of $81,531 a year.

“The problem is lack of stability of the workload,” he said.

Extreme workload cycles at the yards don’t help with recruiting and retaining, said Crow, a retired surface warfare officer. He didn’t want “to throw rocks at the Navy,” but he noted the swings in Navy funding for repair and upgrades run counter to the Navy’s goal of expanding the fleet. Crow said he learned early in his career the Navy can’t build its way into a 355-ship fleet but must maintain the ships it has.

The association offers “a very wide range of training” in the classroom and online. In 2017, it trained 1,075 workers. With a grant from Newport News Shipbuilding, the area’s biggest employer, the association recently added a Marine Trade Training Program that is providing low-level skills that allow students to get entry-level jobs in the yards, he said.

Retired Vice Adm. David Architzel, chairman of the Maritime Industrial Base Ecosystem Institute, said his group formed to take a more in-depth look at the problem of getting workers into the shipyards and is evaluating the kind of workers needed in the future.

The industry needs more support nationally, similar to what is offered by Virginia and the Norfolk area, the panel members agreed. They want to see increased efforts to spread the message that ship repair is an essential and well-paying career.
 

Brumby

Major
a gullible public is the target group of any "budget request" info

what matters is if something is, or isn't, a program of record

EDIT in simple words:
No Money, No Honey
The public body is just a consumer of information and as such is agnostic on cost. The institution that is constantly shooting itself in the foot is the USN's tendency to low ball on the numbers and consequently breaching budget spending guidelines. I am afraid the same will happen with the FFG (X) program. Given that the specs are now basically defined, I think it is more than likely the FFG (X) will come in at around $1,2 Billion a boat. The threshold of $950 million is not realistic. In comparison, the Type 26 is expected to cost between $1,2 - $1.5 Billion each. Their respective capabilities are very similar. Years ago when the survivability of the LCS was debated, the Navy estimated that it would cost up to $950 million to build the LCS up to the Oliver Perry standard. Currently what is unclear to me is the planned survivability standard of the FFG (X). By compromising on the standard, it might be able to build a cheaper boat but then we are back to a conversion about survivability.

The EASR radar which is basically a nine RMA configuration has been established to be equivalent to the SPY-1 (D) in sensitivity i.e. range. Effectively, the FFG (X) is a mini Burke and will need the power and cooling requirement that comes with such capability. .
 

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