US F/A-XX and F-X 6th Gen Aircraft News Thread

[gelgoog]

The navy has a generally newer fleet and different mission types than the USAF which is why they can do this. The USAF NGAD is meant to replace F22 which are now 20 years old and getting very obsolete (systems wise). It has a modernization program in place but because of the small numbers it’s aging fast.
They want to fill an air superiority role that isn’t part of NAVAIR.
The NAVAIR is more interception based, they are just getting F35C into line and finishing up F/A18E/F block 3 programming. The later being the jet the F/A-xx would replace.

The F-35C and F/A-18 E/F have short legs. The US Navy is supposed to operate in the Pacific against Chinese Flankers and J-20 aircraft. The J-20 has only 20% more empty weight yet can carry twice the internal fuel as the F/A-18 E/F. They need the F/A-XX. It is as simple as that.
The range disparity will only get worse when the more fuel efficient WS-15 engine enters service with the J-20.

Well the USAF was at the cusp of the F22 and F35 in the 00s. Which are still world beating.

The F-22 was world beating when it came out. But without proper financing of upgrades is pretty much obsolete today.
It cannot carry any real long range air to air missiles internally. And neither can the F-35.

GaA radar basically doubled detection ranges. And GaN radar will likely double them again. Latest generation Flankers also have like a tenth of the radar return signal of the original ones thanks to using more composites. And the J-20 probably has a tenth of the radar return of a latest generation Flanker.

 

[TerraN_EmpirE]

The F-35C and F/A-18 E/F have short legs. The US Navy is supposed to operate in the Pacific against Chinese Flankers and J-20 aircraft. The J-20 has only 20% more empty weight yet can carry twice the internal fuel as the F/A-18 E/F. They need the F/A-XX. It is as simple as that.
The range disparity will only get worse when the more fuel efficient WS-15 engine enters service with the J-20.

F35C has longer range without tanks than many fourth generation fighters. With Stealth tanks and refueling that’s less an issue. Besides if it came to that kind of war. It’s highly questionable on if the Navy would be making strikes on the PRC homeland.
Yes they need F/A-xx but not right now.

The F-22 was world beating when it came out. But without proper financing of upgrades is pretty much obsolete today.
It cannot carry any real long range air to air missiles internally. And neither can the F-35.

F22 is still world beating. Upgrades are coming. As to very long range missiles that’s not yet an issue. As vs its competition both are still able to get into there tracking and firing ranges long before the potential adversary can even detect the enemy

GaA radar basically doubled detection ranges. And GaN radar will likely double them again. Latest generation Flankers also have like a tenth of the radar return signal of the original ones thanks to using more composites. And the J-20 probably has a tenth of the radar return of a latest generation Flanker.

Note the *Will* which should be a maybe.
well J20 likely has even better then a 10th the Radar return of the flying billboards of Su35 and F15 yet it’s still larger than the F22 or F35 returns.

 

[gelgoog]

The Su-35 has about a tenth the radar return of the F-15 or Su-27. It uses composites. For example the tail is fully made of composites.
The engines have radar absorbent material coatings to reduce their radar return by half as well.

 

[TerraN_EmpirE]

Composite materials are not automatically RAM. When Boeing looked at building a reduced RCS version of the F15 they even took a farther step of angling the Vertical stabilizers and still found the RCS reduced was negligible. Flanker no matter the version was not designed for stealth and no amount of ram or composite will change that. There is no such thing as a stealth Flanker or Fulcrum.

 

[anzha]

I agree. The Navy sticking with the F-18 and in particular continuing production and having a steady set of upgrades for them really paid off. Total F-18 E/F/G production is around ~700 airframes so they have plenty of modern (especially in the sense of airframe age) aircraft in their inventory.

The USN is also ending F/A-18 production at the same time.

 

[SlothmanAllen]

Composite materials are not automatically RAM. When Boeing looked at building a reduced RCS version of the F15 they even took a farther step of angling the Vertical stabilizers and still found the RCS reduced was negligible. Flanker no matter the version was not designed for stealth and no amount of ram or composite will change that. There is no such thing as a stealth Flanker or Fulcrum.

On top of that, the F-15 EX also has composite components on its airframe. I don't have the exact information in front of me, but a certain portion of the airframe was rebuilt with composites on top of whatever other changes have been made to the F-15's airframe materials over the years.

 

[Heresy]

well J20 likely has even better then a 10th the Radar return of the flying billboards of Su35 and F15 yet it’s still larger than the F22 or F35 returns.

How can you possibly know how the J20 compares to the F22 or F35 in terms of radar returns?

 

[TerraN_EmpirE]

Estimates are widely published on both. We have whole threads loaded with them.

 

[Heresy]

Estimates are widely published on both. We have whole threads loaded with them.

Estimates published by whom? I'm not aware of any such consensus being reached from those estimates that says the F22 and F35 are stealthier than the J20 necessarily. At the most, you might be able to argue the J20 is not nearly as stealthy from the rear.

 

[anzha]

USAF NGAD is at $2.7 Billion in the FY25 budget proposal. Ramp up to a downselect should be soon based on funding patterns.

Speculation and Rumors here! I've been told Boeing did a more radical design and Lockheed did an evolutionary one. Since I don't trust Boeing with bolting something in place properly, I'd lean to Lockheed, but that would create a monopoly in the industrial base. I'd almost guess we'd see a split decision with 2/3 going to Lockheed for NGAD and they would call the Boeing Boondoggle something else like a Penetrating Counter Air or some such.

The USN decision for FA-XX complicates the industrial base decisions.

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