Type 093/094 Nuclear Submarine Thread


schenkus

Junior Member
Registered Member
I actually think the PLAN might get into SSGNs in a fairly big way.
...

That exponentially increases the defensive burden of the USN, meaning they need to leave significant assets to defend their home bases and/or try to hunt down PLAN SSGNs.

Sometimes the best defence is a good offence.
The following article might be interesting in this context (though it mainly concerns itself about SSBNs):
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It argues that geography (and alliances) makes it easy for the US to place listening devices at the chokepoints that chinese submarines need to pass to get beyond the first island chain into the pacific and that this would allow the US to keep track of chinese submarines and follow them.

If this is true then I think that investing in SSGNs that are as big as SSBNs and operate similarily (rely on stealth to hide out until you attack) might be less successfull than operating a bigger number of smaller SSNs that can also use cruise missiles.
 

plawolf

Brigadier
The following article might be interesting in this context (though it mainly concerns itself about SSBNs):
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


It argues that geography (and alliances) makes it easy for the US to place listening devices at the chokepoints that chinese submarines need to pass to get beyond the first island chain into the pacific and that this would allow the US to keep track of chinese submarines and follow them.

If this is true then I think that investing in SSGNs that are as big as SSBNs and operate similarily (rely on stealth to hide out until you attack) might be less successfull than operating a bigger number of smaller SSNs that can also use cruise missiles.
That article assumes a lot and takes a lot of other things for granted that are far from guaranteed.

The soviets were massively handicapped by geography, and while China is disadvantaged, it is nowhere like as bottled up as the Soviets were.

Just take a look at a map and the sheer number and length of potential ‘choke points’, and extrapolate the sheer volume of ocean you would need to cover to try and fence the PLAN in with forward deployed listening arrays and you like a truly silly dollar amount.

What the author also fails to consider at all is power.

Having a few pieces of rock in the middle of the ocean you can string listening arrays between does not mean you can you just drop in an array and call it a day.

Such listening arrays, and especially the back end signal processing, takes up a sizeable amount of power.

Unless you plan on building power stations on every rock in the first island chain, your forward array is just not technically feasible.

Even with all those enormous economic and logistical challenges assumed to be achievable, you still have a vast difference between peacetime and actual wartime survivability of this network.

In that respect, the US Cold War experience is a rather false one, as if the shooting actually did start for real, those forward deployed, fixed listening networks would be amongst the first targets hit.

In that respects, peacetime reliance on such networks and arrays could end up being a real double edged sword in wartime, if your forces end up suddenly being deprived of a key early detection method massively relied upon to find enemy subs and consequently struggling.

Finally, unlike the Soviets, China has a hard counter to all US bottling up strategies in the form of Taiwan.

With access to Taiwan, Chinese subs would not only utterly bypass all natural geographical choke points, it would also give China access direct to the deep waters of the Pacific to deploy its own version of SOSUS.

Since China considers reunification with Taiwan a question of when not if, it makes perfect sense for them to make long term planning without the current geographical constraints as assumed to be permanent.

As such, it is entirely within China’s interests to ensure it keeps up and leads in nuclear submarine technology so that once it has access to Taiwan’s west coast as a base, it has state of the art subs to deploy from there.
 

Totoro

Captain
VIP Professional
I'd say that's the best theory so far as to what is the purpose of those small humps behind the sail. Too bad the paper did not touch upon that one sub with much larger, squareish hump.
 

Tam

Major
Registered Member
It is quite possible being a TAS. Though this picture lacks sufficient resolution, it suggest whatever is under the hump is meant to be accessible, and with imagination filling the details, might be a winch.

a-093a-nuclear-submarine-in-google-map-photo2 (1).jpg 093b.jpg
 

Tirdent

Junior Member
Registered Member
Agree, good analysis and the towed array is a good explanation for the hump - I wasn't aware the original 093s didn't have a towed sonar.
 

Tam

Major
Registered Member
Agree, good analysis and the towed array is a good explanation for the hump - I wasn't aware the original 093s didn't have a towed sonar.
Can't or cannot say the original 093's do have a TAS or not. Its just that the one of the 093 mod might be different from an earlier TAS, has a longer line and a larger reel that what the 093 had before or was designed with, and could not be accommodated with the original hull without the hump modification. The older, smaller reel TAS might be the same one used on the PLAN SSKs and could be integrated into the hull.
 

Tam

Major
Registered Member
Very nice write-up. Not due to a VLS or a new reactor.

@Interstellar states these are called 093A.

Now the question is, what is this sub?




This might be a covert sub intended to carry a submersible on the back. Submersible can be used to lay sensor networks, or cut off others. Submersible can be used to retrieve things, or the sub can be used to deploy long running UUVs. Ideally though, I would have preferred to use a Type 094 as a covert sub. The Type 094 needs to be built without the hump for SLBM which would make it look like an extended 093, and then you got the back with the hump that are used for submersible or UUV attachments, and the extended length of the 094 can allow you to carry more or bigger submersibles or UUVs for the mission. I would think the PLAN would need a few special subs running around.
 
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Hyperwarp

Captain
This might be a covert sub intended to carry a submersible on the back. Submersible can be used to lay sensor networks, or cut off others. Submersible can be used to retrieve things, or the sub can be used to deploy long running UUVs. Ideally though, I would have preferred to use a Type 094 as a covert sub. The Type 094 needs to be built without the hump for SLBM which would make it look like an extended 093, and then you got the back with the hump that are used for submersible or UUV attachments, and the extended length of the 094 can allow you to carry more or bigger submersibles or UUVs for the mission. I would think the PLAN would need a few special subs running around.
I was thinking along those lines. Was wondering if this more pronounced 'hump' is required to fit a pod carrying special forces and their equipment or for the SSN to operate as a mothership for an unknown UUV. It doesn't look like a VLS o_Oo_Oo_O.
 

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