Trade War with China

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Think of all the ways an American gets taxed:

Federal income tax
State income tax
Local income tax
Property tax
Social security
Medicare
Sales tax
Tariffs
Tag/registration
Mandatory health insurance
Indirect taxes in the form of corporate tax
Capital gains


The government comes up with all sorts of ways just to make "tax" not seem like one big tax.

Yeah it sucks, in many cities in the Northeast something like over 40% of your hard earned income goes down a black hole, and that is not counting property taxes and sales taxes even! And it's hard to see these tax dollars put to use in any way that benefits the worker/consumer, but there's plenty of it going into the pork barrel.

A funny but insightful example of how America walling itself off from outside competition could seriously handicap its companies.

Well ironically, many Chinese tech companies did indeed benefit from insulation from foreign competition, either through direct or indirect barriers to foreign competition, government support, or preferential treatment.
 
Lot more than GM. Starbucks, Haagen Daz, Nike, Under Armour, MacDonalds, KFC, all that crap should go. They don't bring anything of value to China but take Chinese money. It will be up to Beijing when to use this card.

Doing that outright is going to have a negative impact on the Chinese economy and Chinese jobs. And there are other benefits to having foreign companies operate and do business in China. There are still a lot Chinese companies can learn from foreign multinationals.
 

CMP

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China Will Be Fine, And So Will China Tech Stocks
Jun. 18, 2019 11:00 AM ET
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Foreign companies, eCommerce, internet, software
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(1,541 followers)
Summary
It seems unavoidable for investors to ignore the macro challenges in accessing the investment potential in China-based stocks, including those in the internet sector.

In this week's article, I justify why China will not only survive the drag on the economy from the trade woes but also thrive in the longer term.

Alibaba Group's secondary listing in Hong Kong would send a strong signal to the investor community that Alibaba has options when it comes to financing its growth.

By ALT Perspective

In nearly every Seeking Alpha article that I have come across touching on China-based companies, there has been at least one commentator remarking that investments in such stocks are a no-go until after a resolution on the trade war or, perhaps, never ever. The
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that the returns won't be good or could even be negative as China "is going down".

Hence, even as Chinese internet businesses are deemed to be
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and shown themselves to be
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, it seems unavoidable for investors to ignore the macro challenges in accessing the investment potential in the sector. Nevertheless, it bears noting that before China got embroiled into an apparent war on trade with the U.S. and specifically, the Trump administration, Beijing has already been on a path of a self-inflicted economic slowdown. There are a few factors for this which will be my focus in this week's issue of Chinese Internet Weekly (
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)(
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), and I will elaborate in the subsequent sections.

As explained in a
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, I find the top constituents of the KraneShares CSI China Internet ETF (
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) to be more relevant to the sector. Hence, allow me to provide an overview of the week's share price movements of the top few holdings of KWEB as compared with the ETF itself for convenient references in the subsequent sections.

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Data by YCharts
Why China will not just survive but thrive?
Firstly, the anti-corruption campaign that went into full swing as the Chinese President Xi Jinping started his first term,
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among the thousands of officials and even businessmen who got their riches from unlawful means. While some observers deemed the campaign as a guise for President Xi to consolidate his power, it is undeniable that regardless of the true intention of the exercise, luxury goods and services saw a huge decline in consumption.

Secondly, the
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took out a lot of liquidity from the economy. Incidentally, China’s top banking regulator said Thursday in Shanghai that
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by a net RMB13.74 trillion ($1.98 trillion) following more than two years of intervention. Speculative activities in real estate and risky ventures were severely curtailed.

While the intention was good, unfortunately, legitimate private firms also found themselves starved of capital as the large banks, typically state-owned, tended to entertain loans from fellow state-owned enterprises and ignore the smaller non-public ones. This, coupled with the deleveraging exercise to reduce the debt level in the country, inevitably caused a drag on the economic activity.

Thirdly, those who are frequent travelers to China should notice that 'blue skies' days are getting more prevalent, instead of just near and during major events. The positive outcome is a result of years of
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where the authorities took serious actions on violators and enforced a 'comply or close' regime on offending factories. When businesses have to stop their operations to perform upgrading or forced to shut, the economy is bound to suffer the consequence.

Fourthly, besides the environment that concerned the government, a series of
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heightened awareness among the authorities that the lax supervision in the past cannot be tolerated any longer. Such incidents were getting blown up (no pun intended) due to the wide usage of social media in recent years.

Again, business owners have to decide whether to invest in capital expenditures to upgrade their safety equipment or shut down altogether. Given that there must be numerous facilities that are small scale or aging, it wouldn't make sense to pour more money into compliance, they have to be closed. Consider the cumulative effect from such closures and no doubt the nation's economy is negatively impacted.

Lastly, the authorities are not oblivion to the oft-mentioned 'ghost cities' that the western media delight in featuring every now and then. It can be argued that the provincial governments are apparently still liberal in leasing out land to developers to augment their coffers. Nevertheless, it is undeniable that the policymakers in Beijing are intent on restricting speculations on property, and things could have been worse if they had not even attempted to rein in the undesirable practices at all. The third year of the
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, particularly in larger cities like Shanghai.

There are probably more factors that better-informed readers are aware of (please let us know in the comments section). The point is that China can always relax on one or more of these self-imposed measures to counter the deleterious effect from the tariffs and punitive actions from the U.S. such as the 'Huawei ban'. With Chinese stocks at depressed levels and key names like Alibaba Group (
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)
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, a change in sentiment to the positive could provide the springboard for a strong rebound in valuation.
 

CMP

Senior Member
Registered Member
The historical trends bode well for China's economic outlook
On the basis of purchasing power parity, China has already surpassed the U.S. in GDP, and it held an
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. However, China is still some distance away from reclaiming its former glory. China used to represent nearly one-third of the world's share of GDP two millenniums ago (see the following chart). At the height of its prowess, sometime during the early 19th century, the Qing empire stood for more than 40 percent of the share of world GDP, more than the G7 economies combined. Chinese President Xi Jinping seemed intent to restore the importance of China during his watch.

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Source:
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McKinsey, the global consultancy firm reputable for its views on trends, emphasized in a recent report of
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powered by "strong domestic tailwinds". A case in point: its urbanization rate at 58 percent as of 2017 was still a distance away before reaching the levels Germany and Japan reached decades ago (see the following chart). Thus, through rising urbanization and various avenues to boost per capita GDP and productivity, China still has plenty of room to grow.

SVGZ-Reimagining-global-ties-China-Ex1.ashx


Perhaps we needn't be too worried about China but more of the rest of the world. Since the start of the current millennial, China has never been as dependent on the world as the world is on China. In fact, its exposure to the world is on the decline. On the contrary, the rest of the world is increasing the exposure of their economies to China. This could be why it is the U.S. companies which are banding together to seek a reversal of the tariffs. It was reported that Walmart Inc. (
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), Target Corp. (
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), Macy’s Inc. (
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) and six hundred other companies and associations
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in an effort to de-escalate the trade row.

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Perhaps the trade disputes and other external challenges would take a long time to resolve. Fortunately, for China, it can rely on the strong domestic consumption growth to fuel the economy. The incremental growth in consumption for China is forecasted to nearly double from $3.1 trillion in 2001-2015 to $6.0 trillion in the subsequent 15 years. The U.S. and Western Europe would also see an increase in consumption but the one-fifth expansion pales in comparison to China.

When we think of beneficiaries of domestic consumption in China, e-commerce companies like Alibaba, Meituan-Dianping (
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)(
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)(
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) and JD.com (
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), gaming companies like Tencent Holdings (
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)(
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) and NetEase (
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), as well as streaming providers like iQIYI (
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), Tencent Music Entertainment (
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), YY Inc. (
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), Momo Inc. (
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), and Huya Inc. (
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) easily come to mind.

44555366-1560567378908146.png
 

CMP

Senior Member
Registered Member
The Chinese market still has huge potential
A pharmaceutical initial public offering that saw its debut on the Hong Kong Stock Exchange on Friday served as a reminder of the huge growth potential of the Chinese market. Jiangsu-based Hansoh Pharmaceutical Group
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. Even so, the share price of the drugmaker still managed to soar on its first trading day.

Comparing the healthcare expenditure between China and the developed nations, it's not difficult to see why. As a percentage of GDP, China's healthcare spending is only in mid-single-digits, while it is in the teens for the U.S and Japan. After growing by a 16.3 percent CAGR during 2007-2017, China's healthcare expenditure is still expected to triple to RMB16.0 trillion by 2030. The segment would then represent 10 percent of GDP, reaching the present-day situation in Japan.

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Source:
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The steady growth in the healthcare sector will not be as a result of some random occurrence. While the media love to highlight the Made in China 2025 program, the Healthy China 2030 vision received nary a mention in the mainstream papers. Similarly, Alibaba's health division, Alibaba Health (OTC:
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)(OTC:
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) is apparently neglected by investors as well.

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Source: The
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of the Healthy China 2030 vision


Of course, Tencent is aware of the lucrative healthcare sector. Last year,
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Co. Ltd, a company listed on the Shenzhen Stock Exchange under the ticker code 300451 and a portfolio company of Intel Capital, the global investment organization of Intel Corporation (
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).

Even for the traditional internet sectors, it probably would catch people by surprise that China actually stands for more than half of the worldwide share of retail e-commerce sales. The U.S., with prominent companies like Amazon (
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) and Walmart, stood for only one-fifth of the worldwide share.

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Source:
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/The Economist


In terms of digital orders for food delivery,
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although this time around, the U.S. and U.K are close behind. In this space, it's essentially a duopoly in China, with Meituan-Dianping having an edge over Alibaba's Ele.me/Koubei in terms of market share.

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Source:
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/Nikkei Asian Review

Alibaba's Hong Kong Listing
I typically end the Chinese Internet Weekly with a Market Outlook section. This week, the economic data calendar is light, so I choose to highlight Alibaba. Alibaba has been getting more attention recently as it was widely reported that the internet titan was seeking a
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worth as much as $20 billion.
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came on Thursday when Alibaba filed confidential paperwork for the listing.

Coincidentally, Alibaba's major shareholder, Altaba (
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),
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around 50 million shares between May 20 and June 7 as part of its earlier announced plan to dispose of its 283 million Alibaba shares. This is probably one of the drivers for Alibaba's weak share price in the past weeks. For the uninitiated, following the completion of the sale of Yahoo Inc.'s operating business to Verizon Communications Inc. (
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) on June 13, 2017,
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.

Even as the Chinese government is said to have been ruing the loss of its tech champion to a foreign stock exchange, some American investors have suspected Alibaba's listing on the NYSE as part of a
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of their money. A successful fundraising in Hong Kong would send a strong signal to the investor community that Alibaba has options when it comes to financing its growth. If Alibaba is not welcome in the U.S., it could consider packing its bags elsewhere. Hence, the developments of its secondary listing would be closely watched.

Disclosure: I am/we are long BABA, JD, INFO, NTES, TCEHY. I wrote this article myself, and it expresses my own opinions. I am not receiving compensation for it (other than from Seeking Alpha). I have no business relationship with any company whose stock is mentioned in this article.
 

Tyler

Captain
Registered Member

I don't know how many officials were there on stage, but a lot...

Anyways, I don't think anyone can dispute that the US government, along with at least a handful of other governments, is trying to destroy a private company owned by a private citizen. Why can't the Chinese government lend a hand?

But these clowns are claiming Huawei is owned by the government.
 

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
Doing that outright is going to have a negative impact on the Chinese economy and Chinese jobs. And there are other benefits to having foreign companies operate and do business in China. There are still a lot Chinese companies can learn from foreign multinationals.
Those jobs will be preserved in domestic replacements. Kicking out MacDonalds doesn't mean no burgers; kicking out Starbucks doesn't mean no coffee, and kicking out Nike doesn't mean no shoes. Domestic options must open up immediately to fill those voids. Chinese chefs should be hired by the government to create a National affordable burger company, coffee company, ice cream company. Anta can take all of Nike's/Underarmour's share. Those employed will still be employed and do just what they used to do, but for China's new companies and the profits stay in China for research on how to improve these new national brands instead of going to any American corporations. Eventually, they can out-compete American rivals on the international market as well. Don't worry about profits at first; they can be bankrolled by the government initially if need be. Just focus on getting quality up to the top of the world.

Semiconductors might be tough technology to crack but this shit isn't. This is the low-hanging fruit for how to stop Chinese capital outflow and losing them has almost no drawbacks. There's not much to learn from MacDonalds about how to make a good burger! LOL The only thing MacDonalds is good at is making food extremely cheap by adding pink slime to your meat and that's precisely the type of business culture that China needs to leave behind.
 
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However, China is still some distance away from reclaiming its former glory. China used to represent nearly one-third of the world's share of GDP two millenniums ago (see the following chart). At the height of its prowess, sometime during the early 19th century, the Qing empire stood for more than 40 percent of the share of world GDP, more than the G7 economies combined.

I think that was primarily by virtue of having the largest population. But being able to support such a large population in it of itself was reflective of overall technological and economic cientific advancement (in the pre industrial era). Unfortunately, I think some historians believe that the advancements in agriculture and the food surpluses and large population were contributing factors leading to "great divergence," which resulted in the rise of the West.
 

localizer

Colonel
Registered Member
GDP per capita is all about productivity. As long as China can match the West in education and technology, the productivity (GDP per capita) can be matched.

In the digital realm such as mobile payment and AI, China is doing better than the West. Only areas where it falls behind are things such as creative freedom and agriculture. Education will take time, but in 10-20 years, the entire workforce should be well educated.

China can only go up unless there's war or Xi goes full Mao
 
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