Trade War with China


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mr.bean

Junior Member
China steel export to US is less than 3% of total import to US It is meaningless Canada and Brazil , Japan will be hurt. But American will be hurt most due to inflation and higher cost of everything from car to beer

LMAO Canada and Turkey is going to be so screwed! best thing for China is to do NOTHING at the moment and let the US duke it out with the EU and Canada. Xi dada should pull out a chair make some popcorn and watch this gong show unfold.
 
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ougoah

Captain
Registered Member
This "trade war" is just a stunt from the man in power. He needs to make a show for the anti-China boys. The reality is that China has really safeguarded herself from any intentional economic war from the US. Unless the US abandons or dramatically shifts the rules of capitalism and how their private corporations are governed, China cannot be really hurt by conscious efforts from US leaders. This trade deficit cannot be removed until US corporations leave China. But if they did leave, US corporations will suffer huge loses in profit margins. Hint, they don't leave and NOBODY likes to leave China because China provides the absolute best quality for value ratio and EVERYONE really understands this. Otherwise they would move all industries to India, Vietnam, Japan, Germany, Spain, etc wherever. Those other players either cannot offer the quality or the technical ability, or they come at such a great cost it'll run the company into bankruptcy. So China has simply outplayed the capitalists using the vices of their own system. Few average people realise this and we'll keep hearing about the made in china sound bites while others can't even make.

So in many ways this trade deficit between US and China is actually US corporations making huge profits and paying taxes to the US gov. It is US companies exporting their products using China as a stopover. The reality is that it also benefits the US. They can all get out. But most don't and many want to enter. That alone reveals everything one really needs to know. Few other countries are as competitive as China in a wide range of manufacturing industries. If they were, we wouldn't see this level of trade and manufacturing partnerships with Chinese companies.
 

ILikeChina

Junior Member
Registered Member
I see, Elon doesn't want to sell Tesla cars in China.
Equal import tax imposed by a developed country and developing is a absurd.
That's for what WTO exist to solve the differences between the countries.

Elon Musk takes Donald Trump to task on US-China car trade as Tesla eyes factory in China
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Anlsvrthng

Senior Member
Registered Member
This "trade war" is just a stunt from the man in power. He needs to make a show for the anti-China boys. The reality is that China has really safeguarded herself from any intentional economic war from the US. Unless the US abandons or dramatically shifts the rules of capitalism and how their private corporations are governed, China cannot be really hurt by conscious efforts from US leaders. This trade deficit cannot be removed until US corporations leave China. But if they did leave, US corporations will suffer huge loses in profit margins. Hint, they don't leave and NOBODY likes to leave China because China provides the absolute best quality for value ratio and EVERYONE really understands this. Otherwise they would move all industries to India, Vietnam, Japan, Germany, Spain, etc wherever. Those other players either cannot offer the quality or the technical ability, or they come at such a great cost it'll run the company into bankruptcy. So China has simply outplayed the capitalists using the vices of their own system. Few average people realise this and we'll keep hearing about the made in china sound bites while others can't even make.

So in many ways this trade deficit between US and China is actually US corporations making huge profits and paying taxes to the US gov. It is US companies exporting their products using China as a stopover. The reality is that it also benefits the US. They can all get out. But most don't and many want to enter. That alone reveals everything one really needs to know. Few other countries are as competitive as China in a wide range of manufacturing industries. If they were, we wouldn't see this level of trade and manufacturing partnerships with Chinese companies.
You mixing up the enxt things:
1. US corporate owner/managers and govermetn official interest
2. Chinese corporate owners/managers and goverment official interest
3. Average chinese interest( 99% of the population)
4 average US citizen interest ( 99% of the population)

Trade war is bad for 1/2, netural for 3, and good for 4.
Current situation is good for 1/2 , neutral for 3 and bad for 4.


And 4 voted Trump into power.
 

Skywatcher

Senior Member
Given the holes that the metals tariff is sprouting from 'national security' exemptions, a wide trade war with China will be scuttled by some loud foot stomping by Walmart and Tom Cotton.
 
This "trade war" is just a stunt from the man in power. He needs to make a show for the anti-China boys. The reality is that China has really safeguarded herself from any intentional economic war from the US. Unless the US abandons or dramatically shifts the rules of capitalism and how their private corporations are governed, China cannot be really hurt by conscious efforts from US leaders. This trade deficit cannot be removed until US corporations leave China. But if they did leave, US corporations will suffer huge loses in profit margins. Hint, they don't leave and NOBODY likes to leave China because China provides the absolute best quality for value ratio and EVERYONE really understands this. Otherwise they would move all industries to India, Vietnam, Japan, Germany, Spain, etc wherever. Those other players either cannot offer the quality or the technical ability, or they come at such a great cost it'll run the company into bankruptcy. So China has simply outplayed the capitalists using the vices of their own system. Few average people realise this and we'll keep hearing about the made in china sound bites while others can't even make.

So in many ways this trade deficit between US and China is actually US corporations making huge profits and
NOT paying taxes to the US government
paying taxes to the US gov. It is US companies exporting their products using China as a stopover. The reality is that it also benefits the US. They can all get out. But most don't and many want to enter. That alone reveals everything one really needs to know. Few other countries are as competitive as China in a wide range of manufacturing industries. If they were, we wouldn't see this level of trade and manufacturing partnerships with Chinese companies.
 

ougoah

Captain
Registered Member
NOT paying taxes to the US government
Not familiar with US commercial law but US companies are not paying taxes on their income? It doesn't matter where products are manufactured. Reported and taxable income is taxed in other parts off the world regardless of where the factories are.
 
Not familiar with US commercial law but US companies are not paying taxes on their income? It doesn't matter where products are manufactured. Reported and taxable income is taxed in other parts off the world regardless of where the factories are.
Please do some research yourself if you're truly interested, it is not a secret that US companies both offshore investments and keep international earnings overseas to reduce US taxes, however it is more complicated than direct tax laws. Here's a link to start:
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There are also all sorts of international differences regarding assets and labor where US companies can reduce costs, including US taxes, by investing outside of the US.
 
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ougoah

Captain
Registered Member
Okay while it may be true that loopholes exist and are exploited to the benefit of some US companies that operate outside the US and contribute "less than they ought to" in tax, none of this takes anything away from my point. That being, China is not somehow cheating the Americans in their trade. US corporations CHOOSE to be in China for economic reasons. Many of these corporations are more successful because of this.
 

supercat

Junior Member
Japan refuses to participate in potentially U.S. initiated trade war against China. Also, the so-called Section 301 of the U.S. Trade Act is America's domestic law and is in violation of WTO rules.

US set to hit China with tariffs up to $60bn over intellectual property

WASHINGTON -- The U.S. is set to impose up to $60 billion of additional tariffs on Chinese goods as punishment for alleged intellectual property theft, according to U.S. media reports on Tuesday.

President Donald Trump could implement the measure by the end of the month, the reports said. The hardball measure would come on top of restrictions on steel and aluminum imports, as Trump steps up his "America first" protectionist policy.

The Trump administration is seeking to raise tariffs on a wide range of Chinese goods. Reuters and other U.S. media reported that the tariffs could range from $30 billion to $60 billion. The additional tariffs would likely target the technology and telecommunications sectors, Reuters said, citing sources close to the administration. The list could eventually run up to 100 products, the report added.

The Trump administration is seeking to invoke Section 301 of the U.S. Trade Act to allow president to impose import tariffs to sanction unfair trade practices. The Office of the U.S. Trade Representative has accused China of infringing on U.S. intellectual property rights, including the widespread counterfeiting of goods. The USTR has also criticized China for demanding that U.S. companies transfer their technology when setting up local units in China.

Citing the possibility of imposing tariffs under Section 301 of the U.S. Trade Act, the government launched a probe in August to determine whether China's intellectual property practices are unfair. The law allows the president to enact tariffs as an emergency measure.

In addition to intellectual property infringements such as counterfeiting, Washington takes issue with Chinese investment rules that force U.S. companies to transfer proprietary technology to do business in the country.

The USTR sent a proposal to the White House seeking tariffs on various Chinese products, restrictions on investment in the U.S. by Chinese companies and limits on visas for certain Chinese nationals, a source familiar with international trade said. Tariffs would apply not only to information technology products, often the target of intellectual property theft, but also consumer goods like clothing.

China accounts for roughly half of the $800 billion American trade deficit in goods. High tariffs enacted on electronics and clothing, which the U.S. buys a lot of from China, would sharpen trade frictions and risk economic side effects in the U.S. such as inflation. In contrast, Chinese steel comprises just 2% of all American steel imports.



The USTR is also urging allied countries to take similar measures against China. The office has asked nations such as Japan, which has long opposed China's intellectual property practices, to synchronize their policies.

But Tokyo rejected the proposal, saying hard-line policies will be difficult to adopt since Japan has no law resembling Section 301, according to a U.S. trade official. Japan instead proposed filing a joint suit against China within the World Trade Organization framework, the official said.

Chinese President Xi Jinping sent top economic adviser Liu He to Washington at the end of February in an effort to pre-empt Trump's protectionist measures. Liu spoke with U.S. Trade Representative Robert Lighthizer and announced Beijing's commitment to reduce its trade surplus with the U.S.

But Trump took to Twitter on March 7, saying "The U.S. is acting swiftly on Intellectual Property theft. We cannot allow this to happen as it has for many years!"

The U.S. used the threat of Section 301, adopted in 1974, during a trade dispute with Japan in the 1980s to extract concessions. But Washington has refrained from using this law since the WTO was established in 1995, since it conflicts with international rules prohibiting unilateral action on trade restrictions.

Trump has begun delivering the protectionist trade policies he promised during his campaign. Citing national security concerns under Section 232 of the U.S. Trade Act, Trump announced tariffs of 25% on steel and 10% on aluminum Thursday. Economic adviser Gary Cohn, who opposed the action, resigned in response. The move was a victory for White House trade adviser Peter Navarro, who lobbied for the tariffs and is known for his hard-line stance against China.
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