Tom Clancy's "The Bear and the Dragon"

I finished reading the book took me about 1 year because I gave up 2/3's of the way through and only picked it up again a week ago. The characterization of the Chinese leadership seems entirely cookie-cutterwise. The actual war scenario seems rigged from the beginning and unrealistic if this book was written in the year 2000 or based on it.

A) The 1991 "Iraq/Iran War" had a drastic effect on the Chinese in real life, the PLA went though the most drastic military reorganization ever undertaken by a military power in history as a result of America's beating of Iraq. In Tom's world Iran and Iraq unified under a religious leader and was nevertheless similarily crushed by the US in 1991 thus the same thing should've happened, and the PLA would've been far more modern and able to fight a war.

B) The PLAAF was trashed by inferior numbers of American F-14/16's no mention of the F-35 which utilized AWAAC's to help missiles lock onto PLAAF assets etc. And thus the PLAAF probly lost some 500 planes tops by the time the war ended and the US at most lost some 10 planes... at most.

The problem with this is that its impossible PERIOD. A friend who attends Harvard has a roommate is the son of a Joint Chief of Staff's whose reply to what he thought of B&D was to laugh and say they can't do that. Then there's the common sense factor. Even with upgrades America's current F-14's/16's are still old compared to the SU-27's and SU-30's currently in service during the book.

C) The USAF knocked out 6 bridges in the Harbin Wei railroad network to decapitate the PLA's supplylines in Russia, believeable if it weren't for the fact that the PLA's AA and FLAK defences should've been more then enough to knock the fighter bombers, China's radar systems are not Iraq's.

D) The US utilized UAV's to see in real time the position of the PLA units and coordinate the Russian/US defences in siberia seeing everything that the PLA can do. However assuming that the book was written with 2000 in mind, I know that the PLA had UAV's in 1994. Thus they should've been able to likewise see what the Russian's/Americans can do.

E) Clancy spoke of the majority of Chinese citizens wearing Mao suits, spoke of how in China everything looks good only from a distance and how "horrible" the food is. I know otherwise from the oversea's Chinese students here in Canada that the cities are beatiful places, the food is good, and instead of say in the 60's with the streets filled with PLA soldiers the cities are bustling metrolpolices filled with tourists, citizens and corporate logos and brands etc. The 1950's view of China is extremely annoying.


Though they're are some saving graces, he did a balanced view of the Politburo of those who are progressive and those who are hardliner as far as an outsider can tell but he still paints the picture that even progressive chinese leadership is somehow corrupt in some way, a second Tienamen square and a subsequent change in government is believeable "if" China went into a losing war and if it was the fault of a few elite members of the politburo.

I liked the Russian subplot the most since it was reasonable all the way through and a fun read but almsot every other part of the book was bland or somehow talored to make it look like America can't lose a war.

Now what else did I not like... ah yes it was a freaking sermon almost every 5 pages, about how "Communism is evil this" or "Communism failed that" c'mon can this guy make no distinction between true communism and the mockery of Stalinist Socialist Totalitarianism? Then there's the economic view, Tom Clancy wrote this book with 2000 in mind yet has no idea how badly America would be hurt if it suddenly decided to stop trading with China the economic whiplash would've caused a recission(sp?). Back to charractitures, he paints the Chinese leadership as uncompronmising and foolhardy, unlogical etc etc, yet if you look at similar trading disputes recently in the news today the PRC has been compromizing and cooperative with everything.

Also predictibility, every plotline had a purpose and I could geuss from the development of wach one what it could do, I knew that the training of spetsnaz woiuld be used to take out the nucleare silo's I knew the reason to have the AEGIS cruisers get better software was to take down the one or 2 missiles that of course escape and get launched. Tom even gives hints to point towards that its the Baptist and the Priest that become the reason why the war begins. Everything is predictable though the very ending of it was satisfactory at least. As far as I can tell with the ending of the book is basically the Chinese unilarery withdraw and offer to pay reparations and the politboru "elitists" are arrested and the progresssive members form a knew government with some of the student leaders who go to Tianemen Square.

The overal book is poor and barely worth 1 star but at least the ending isnt half bad.

Anyone else read the book and have some thoughts?

You know the rumor is that Tom Clancy had a ghost writer in the beginning and that's why those books were better than his laters works that were written by himself?

Tom Clancy is loon. He knows how to talk but only if his facts were just as good. I saw him on CNN promoting this book. He was asked were did he get his information that China was planning to invade into Russia. He said, " The Mongols did it!" Can you imagine how you can apply that same logic to the US with Nazi Germany?

That book was sooooooooo horrible it wasn't even funny. When I was in high school, it was my favorite book because of my ignorance. However, ever since I started to know about politics and military weapons, my contempt for Tom Clancy has soared through the roof. And in the book, there was absolutely no mention of the Sunburn or Klub missiles. On top of that, the previous book called Executive Order, it portrayed the Americans as being militarily capable enough take on and smash a unified Iran and Iraq. Well, right now the US can't even manage a divided Iraq so how it will manage to take on Iran, much less a unified Iran and Iraq?

The sad truth is the books is based on china in1960s.

For most american, (including me 10 years ago ) like to think china as a backward, communist fanatic country.
After living In the city of Kumming for 2 month, China is not half bad.

To all the writer out ther, next time write book, Do a little research.

Did anyone read Debt of Honour? The plot for that one though looks interesting what does anyone think of it? (I havent read it yet)

the one where Japan fights America.....stay away from Clancy. The only good book I've ever seen by that moron is Red Storm Rising, and that's because the entire scenario was wargamed out with a true professional. I forgot his name though.

petty officer1 said:

The sad truth is the books is based on china in1960s.

For most american, (including me 10 years ago ) like to think china as a backward, communist fanatic country.
After living In the city of Kumming for 2 month, China is not half bad.

To all the writer out ther, next time write book, Do a little research.

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Ever see that TV show? I think it was called "The Agency." They had people in China living straw huts in the middle of the jungle.

vincelee said:

the one where Japan fights America.....stay away from Clancy. The only good book I've ever seen by that moron is Red Storm Rising, and that's because the entire scenario was wargamed out with a true professional. I forgot his name though.

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Larry Bond? I think he was Clancy's ghost writer.

Agreed. Red Storm Rising is the only good book by Tom Clancy. All of his other books are complete garbage. What is even more outrageous is that he was also asked by the CIA for advice on many occassions!!! I am not kididng. I read that in the inside flap of one of his books. Now that just cracks me up. :rofl:

but seriously, anyone can "consult" the Pentagon and CIA. It's not like these two are known for their assessments anyway. Remember how there were quite a few mistakes in their annual assessment of Chinese Military Progress? Yeah. I can probably consult the Pentagon.