To address its own and country biggest weakness, Huawei must advance its chip manufacturing.

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PikeCowboy

Junior Member
There are lots of talks about vertical integration and self-sufficiency. However, Huawei could die well before Hisilicon and other subsidiaries and vendors find alternatives to U.S. and Taiwanese suppliers. Beijing could spend huge sums of money to keep Huawei (especially its research team) afloat for 5-6 years, but doing so would in itself justify the very reason the Trump Administration started the Trade War, causing both Beijing and Huawei to be further isolated in the high-tech industry for decades to come. I am saying this because, in addition to the U.S., the EU, Japan, South Korea, and Taiwan wouldn't just stand by if Beijing chooses to keep Huawei afloat through heavy state subsidies and turn it into a de facto state-owned laboratory for dual-use communication technologies of tomorrow.

China can "purchase" government office use telecom equipment/upgrade/maintainence/security/monitoring/consultancy services from Huawei... just like what the US does with the companies it wants to support.... no body's playing true market economy
 

Xizor

Captain
Registered Member
Trump care big deal about stock market that everybody knows except you.

Banning of Intel or any other tech big wigs will affect stock market

Weight lifting is your thing not intel and stock market
That is Not very bright of you to say that Trump will simply bow down with a counter Ban. Obviously Trump cares about Stock market as it is one of the few things he can make clever sense of - If the graph shows up and is in Green - Bigly Nice. If the graph is down and in Red- BAD.

Trump's trade policy is directed and crafted by Wilbur Ross, Lightizer , Minuchin etc They don't care if Apple or Intel loses couple Billions. They will tell Trump that it is not a big deal. Trump will Tweet or do a press conference or do a helicopter background interview to press reporters saying that " Intel is no Big deal, we will help them".
 

phynex92

New Member
Registered Member
Chinese government doesn't know how to fight.

In my POV, if China today announces banning of Intel in China, tommorrow US will take Huawei off the ban list.

Simple as that, but it has No guts, alright i am not going to use word balls because some members feel uneasy about it.

Dealing with an adversary stronger than you is never about fighting it head on. It's more wise to do limited skirmishes on areas that hurt the most, i.e. US agricultural exports. China needs to pick battles it can win and avoid the ones that it can't. In the case of totally banning Intel, I don't see how it's going to threaten its existence because none of it's critical elements are totally reliant on the Chinese market.
 

SpicySichuan

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Huawei turns to ‘Plan B’ on chip strategy after US blacklisting Ban could accelerate Chinese high-tech research and development US companies will have to obtain a licence from Washington to sell technology to Huawei © AP Share on Twitter (opens new window) Share on Facebook (opens new window) Share on LinkedIn (opens new window) Share Save Save to myFT Louise Lucas in Hong Kong and Nian Liu and Yuan Yang in Tianjin YESTERDAY Print this page293 Huawei’s chipmaking arm said it had turned its “Plan Bs into Plan As overnight” a day after the Trump administration raised the prospect of a US ban on export of parts and components to the Chinese telecoms group. The Shenzhen-based company is already largely shut out of selling into the US market and has been ramping up its self-sufficiency — along with other Chinese tech groups — since Washington imposed a similar export ban on smaller rival ZTE last year. That in turn has stoked what some critics describe as the unintended consequence of Washington’s actions: pushing Chinese tech companies to accelerate their own capacity rather than tamping them down. In an internal memo to employees seen by the Financial Times, He Tingbo, chief executive of HiSilicon, Huawei’s wholly owned semiconductor subsidiary, wrote: “All the spare tyres we have built have turned to Plan A overnight.” HiSilicon chief executive He Tingbo described the US plan as an 'insane decision' © HiSilicon Ms He added: “Today, the circle of destiny turns to this extreme and dark moment, the Superpower has mercilessly interrupted the technical and industrial system of global co-operation, made the most insane decision, put Huawei into the Entity List with no founded basis.” HiSilicon, which has 7000 employees, came into focus about four years ago when it began making chips for smartphones. Last year, the unit produced more than $7.5bn worth of chips, rotating chairman Eric Xu told Reuters. The US Department of Commerce on Wednesday said it would put Huawei on its so-called Entity List, meaning that US companies will have to obtain a licence from Washington to sell technology to Huawei. At the same time, US president Donald Trump signed an executive order declaring the US telecoms sector faced a “national emergency” — giving the commerce department the power to “prohibit transactions posing an unacceptable risk” to national security. US chipmaker Qualcomm, which earns around 5 per cent of its revenues from Huawei, saw its share price drop 4 per cent to close at $82.81 in New York on Thursday despite a broadly positive market. Shares in Broadcom, another supplier, fell 2.3 per cent to $297.29. When ZTE was hit by an export ban last year, after violating penalties meted out for sanction-busting sales to Iran, it was forced to shut down production for several months. Chinese tech company executives described the move as a “wake up” call that the US could terminate their supply of vital components — and ramped up their efforts to increase self-reliance. Recommended Artificial intelligence China’s high-technology revolution extends to the factory floor Alibaba is developing superfast quantum computers and aims to have its first artificial intelligence chips on the market next year. Several homegrown companies, including Shenzhen-based Cambricon Technologies, have also sprouted to develop AI chipsets. The resetting of the corporate landscape — both in China and in the US, where chipmakers are also fretting about the impact of losing a big buyer — is coming as the trade wars and Huawei-specific moves prompt a rethink on supply chains. At the heart of the US-China spat, which embraces concerns over so-called spying “backdoors” in Huawei equipment, intellectual property theft and trade imbalances, many see a broader fear in Washington of China’s rising tech prowess. Huawei rotating chairman Ken Hu wrote in a memo sent to employees on Thursday that the company had expected difficulties with the US “many years ago” and had invested heavily in research and development as a precaution. “[We] can ensure that in extreme cases the company’s operations will not be much affected,” Mr Hu said. However, analysts say that although Huawei’s HiSilicon may be China’s most advanced chip designer, it relies on Taiwan’s TSMC to make its chips and would thus suffer if the US put pressure on Taiwan to abide by its sanctions. The software that HiSilicon uses to design chips — electronic design automation (EDA) software — is also supplied by US companies, which would have to cut off services to HiSilicon, leaving the company with either outdated or no software to continue designing future chips. More importantly, HiSilicon only designs a fraction of the chips that Huawei requires for its phones and telecoms equipment, and is not able to provide core components, such as the logic chips made by Intel and other US suppliers.
 

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
Trump care big deal about stock market that everybody knows except you.

Banning of Intel or any other tech big wigs will affect stock market

Weight lifting is your thing not intel and stock market
And during Christmas/New Years, when the stock market fell to 22,000, what did Trump do? Did he lift tariffs? No, he just blamed everyone else, said it was the Fed's fault and said Chinese unfair trade practices caused it. You are literally using only your imagination while I am providing historical evidence for my predictions. Trump has NEVER BACKED DOWN, because the only thing he cares about is looking strong. He does not care what happens to anybody or any country, USA included, if it can buy him a strong image. Trying to make Trump back down is stupid and inane. Use his own rashness to hurt the US economy/technology so he leaves office with China closer to US heels than before. It's the only way.

Weightlifting is my thing, but it's one of many things. Stock market is not, but I can still logic better than you can. And Intel is apparently a thing for neither of us since we don't know what China is getting from it, but the difference is I don't pretend to know and make up simplistic wrong answers.
 
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tidalwave

Senior Member
Registered Member
That is Not very bright of you to say that Trump will simply bow down with a counter Ban. Obviously Trump cares about Stock market as it is one of the few things he can make clever sense of - If the graph shows up and is in Green - Bigly Nice. If the graph is down and in Red- BAD.

Trump's trade policy is directed and crafted by Wilbur Ross, Lightizer , Minuchin etc They don't care if Apple or Intel loses couple Billions. They will tell Trump that it is not a big deal. Trump will Tweet or do a press conference or do a helicopter background interview to press reporters saying that " Intel is no Big deal, we will help them".

Then you have No clear idea what this trade war is all about.

IP protection and cut subsidies thats what US emphasized is all about US Semiconductor leadership in China market.

Banning Intel in China meaning destroying the basis of what US wants in trade talk, they will lose their fighting cause. US semiconductor companies got banned in China, what lighthizer will want in subsequent trade talk?? No more US companies in China, what the point still talking IP protection subsidies for Chinese companies,? Hellooo???

Come on, a few billions subsidies to help Intel?? US semiconductor leadership in China market!! We are not talking farmers here.

Trump lighthizer don't care if US Semiconductor companies lose money currently in China but they want future leadership and dominance in China market. This is what this trade war is about.
 
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tidalwave

Senior Member
Registered Member
And during Christmas/New Years, when the stock market fell to 22,000, what did Trump do? Did he lift tariffs? No, he just blamed everyone else, said it was the Fed's fault and said Chinese unfair trade practices caused it. You are literally using only your imagination while I am providing historical evidence for my predictions. Trump has NEVER BACKED DOWN, because the only thing he cares about is looking strong. He does not care what happens to anybody or any country, USA included, if it can buy him a strong image. Trying to make Trump back down is stupid and inane. Use his own rashness to hurt the US economy/technology so he leaves office with China closer to US heels than before. It's the only way.

Weightlifting is my thing, but it's one of many things. Stock market is not, but I can still logic better than you can. And Intel is apparently a thing for neither of us since we don't know what China is getting from it, but the difference is I don't pretend to know and make up simplistic wrong answers.
He shifts blame on Fed means he care about stock market.

As it nears 2020 election, he will care more and more about stock market.
 

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
Then you have No clear idea what this trade war is all about.

IP protection and cut subsidies thats what US emphasized is all about US Semiconductor leadership in China market.

Banning Intel in China meaning destroying the basis of what US wants in trade talk, they will lose their fighting cause.

Come on, a few billions subsidies to help Intel?? US semiconductor leadership in China market!! We are not talking farmers here.
Banning Intel in China will not destroy the company in any way. It might prevent China from siphoning some of more of their tech. Plus, you are missing a very important part of the trade war, which is to stop China from rising. If nothing is done, China will surpass the US so even if they destroy multiple American companies to damage China's tech sector or economy, they are willing to see if that new combination can stop China's rise. Whatever the solution, they will not accept a return to the old ways because the old ways has America's defeat in sight.

And say it with me now, "Trump never backs down." Say it over and over again until you understand. It is not a compliment to him; it is saying he doesn't understand the consequences and he doesn't care about his people. If aliens descended upon the US and threatened to blow it up with a death beam unless Trump surrendered, he'd say, "We're having a little spat with the aliens, but it's ok. We're stronger; our military is the best in the universe. Their military is not doing so well. They haven't fired at us because they know we'd beat them so badly. Plus, I have a great relationship and phenomenal chemistry with their leader Zrrrgh so they know we'll win bigly and I'll make them pay for the new space-wall to protect us by collecting trillions of dollars from them in tariffs." Then Zrrrgh will scratch his head, switch among 3 different independently designed intergalactic translation devices before determining that that is actually what this earthling said, then shrug and blow up the earth. That's who Trump is.

He shifts blame on Fed means he care about stock market.

As it nears 2020 election, he will care more and more about stock market.
Shifting blame means he's not going to be responsible for it and hence not going to fix it; if he cared he would act to boost it. Trump can make the stock market skyrocket right now if he wanted to by making a deal, any deal with China. That he hasn't emphasizes that he prioritizes personally looking strong over the stock market. In 2020, his voter base, angry conservative white people, will not support him if they perceive him to be someone who backed down to China, and reversing the Huawei ban in response to an Intel ban is going to do huge damage to him on that front.
 
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ZeEa5KPul

Colonel
Registered Member
If aliens descended upon the US and threatened to blow it up with a death beam unless Trump surrendered, he'd say, "We're having a little spat with the aliens, but it's ok. We're stronger; our military is the best in the universe. They're not doing so well. They haven't fired at us because they know we'd beat them so badly. Plus, I have a great relationship and phenomenal chemistry with their leader so they know we'll win bigly." Then they'll blow up the earth. That's who Trump is.
You know, I actually read that in his voice. I saw him in my mind doing a helicopter interview with his oversized suit, his ridiculous "hair", and his sphincter mouth saying those words. Waving and gesturing his little hands around.
 

tidalwave

Senior Member
Registered Member
Banning Intel in China will not destroy the company in any way. Plus, you are missing on a very important part of the trade war, which is to stop China from rising. If nothing is done, China will surpass the US so even if they destroy multiple American companies to damage China's tech sector or economy, they are willing to see if that new combination can stop China's rise. Whatever the solution, they will not accept a return to the old ways because the old ways has America's defeat in sight.

And say it with me now, "Trump never backs down." Say it over and over again until you understand. It is not a compliment to him; it is saying he doesn't understand the consequences and he doesn't care about his people. If aliens descended upon the US and threatened to blow it up with a death beam unless Trump surrendered, he'd say, "We're having a little spat with the aliens, but it's ok. We're stronger; our military is the best in the universe. They're not doing so well. They haven't fired at us because they know we'd beat them so badly. Plus, I have a great relationship and phenomenal chemistry with their leader so they know we'll win bigly." Then they'll blow up the earth. That's who Trump is.


Shifting blame means he's not going to be responsible for it and hence not going to fix it; if he cared he would act to boost it. Trump can make the stock market skyrocket right now if he wanted to by making a deal, any deal with China. That he hasn't emphasizes that he prioritizes personally looking strong over the stock market. In 2020, his voter base, angry conservative white people, will not support him if they perceive him to be someone who backed down to China, and reversing the Huawei ban in response to an Intel ban is going to do huge damage to him on that front.
Wrong.
To completely destroy China without concern for US tech companies in China is Steve Bannon.
Lighthizer wants US tech companies leadership in China in future.

Trump doesn't care neither, he just want reelection. Stock market down, economy down means no reelection.

He will back up if it help him to win reelection.

Trump hit Huawei because he's mad about China back out from trade deal.

He wants the trade deal!
Simple as that.

Your theory of Trump only wants to destroy China is not withstanding, thats Bannon and hes already out
 
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