Thoughts on the Chinese Civil War

Phead128

Captain
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
What is this then?
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What are these if they are not stabbing and screaming? You can count the casualties.
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The analogy comes from good knowledge of what is happening around the world. ;) Otherwise one would be dumb.

Thank you for proving that Chinese and Koreans civil wars are not over.

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Now can you clarify who is not stabbing and screaming against each other? Both China and Korea are stabbing and screaming each other. What a weird analogy to use.

TLDR: The Chinese civil war isn't over... thanks for proving my point.
 

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
Thank you for proving that Chinese and Koreans civil wars are not over.

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Now can you clarify who is not stabbing and screaming against each other? Both China and Korea are stabbing and screaming each other. What a weird analogy to use.

TLDR: The Chinese civil war isn't over... thanks for proving my point.
You made is sound like I am arguing for "Chinese civil war is over". It looks like you are employing the "straw man fallacy". There is no need to pick a fight on something that everybody agrees on principle but with minor differences.

Let me clarify, Mainland stopped stabbing Taiwan since 1959 (or 1979 counting a few shootings). The last time NK and SK killed one another was 2010 with 46 dead and 58 wounded. They are stopped stabbing and is stabbing in my mind.

If you insist that the last cross-straight bloodshed in the 1940-50s should be counted as continued stabbing, I am not interested in continue it because apparently our brains are made of different chemical elements.
 
Last edited:

Phead128

Captain
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
You made is sound like I am arguing for "Chinese civil war is over". It looks like you are employing the "straw man fallacy". There is no need to pick a fight on something that everybody agrees on principle but with minor differences.

Let me clarify, Mainland stopped stabbing Taiwan since 1959 (or 1979 counting a few shootings). The last time NK and SK killed one another was 2010 with 46 dead and 58 wounded. They are stopped stabbing and is stabbing in my mind.

If you insist that the last cross-straight bloodshed in the 1940-50s should be counted as continued stabbing, I am not interested in continue it because apparently our brains are made of different chemical elements.
The Chinese and Korean civil wars are not over. I don't even understand why you reply back with such an analogy. What is your ultimate point? Please don't waste our time with such useless analogies.
 

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
Any decent, good books that discuss the Chinese Civil War between the CPC/PLA and KMT that anyone can kindly and highly recommend to read. Also, the battle strategies, tactics, and the influential generals that helped shaped each other's forces and outcome. Thanks very much.
Well in my book Lin biao is the best general of Chinese army ever. He only lost one battle in his career Out of 3 deciding campaign to rout Kuomintang army He lead 2 of them. He is dubbed the Napoleon of China As a child I avidly read his exploit. His mystery death is still an enigma . I think the PLA rehabilitate his position as the one of the 8 marshall of Chinese army. He basically won North China for the communist before sweeping south in Huahai campaign
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1638588306424.png

There are 2 books on his campaign available with Amazon
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Lin Biao,
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Lin Piao, original name Lin Yurong, (born Dec. 5, 1907, Huanggang,
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province, China—died Sept. 13, 1971?, Mongolia?), Chinese military leader who, as a field commander of the Red Army, contributed to the communists’ 22-year struggle for power and held many high government and party posts. He played a prominent role in the first several years of the
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(1966–76), but in 1971 he allegedly sought to remove Chinese leader
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and seize power; his plot was discovered, and he died under obscure circumstances.

Early life and military career​

Lin Biao was born of a modest landholding family in Hubei province in central
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. He received his
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in the village school, then entered middle school in Wuchang, the provincial capital, in 1921. While in middle school, he was deeply affected by the social and cultural upheaval then taking place in his
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. He soon became interested in socialism and
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, and in 1923 he joined the Socialist Youth League.

In 1925 Lin Biao went south to
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(Canton) to enroll in the Whampoa (Huangpu) Academy and there began both his military career and his membership in the
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(CCP). China at this time suffered from the twin evils of warlordism and imperialism (i.e., internal disunity and foreign encroachment). In order to fight the warlords and curb the imperialists, the
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, led by
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until his death in March 1925, had secured the assistance of the
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and the cooperation of the CCP and were then preparing a military expedition from their base in Guangzhou. The
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, headed by Sun’s successor,
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(Jiang Jieshi), was to train the officers for the revolutionary army. Lin had been at the academy less than a year when Chiang launched the
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in July 1926. Nevertheless, despite the
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of his formal training, Lin quickly demonstrated his military prowess. A few months later, when the expedition reached the
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(Chang Jiang) in central China, he had risen from deputy platoon leader to battalion commander. But, when Chiang then turned savagely against his communist allies in 1927, Lin forsook his mentor and fled with the communists.


In
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1927 Lin took part in the Nanchang Uprising led by
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and other communist leaders. In the spring of 1928, Lin joined Mao Zedong in the hills of south-central China and established himself at once as one of the ablest and most active commanders in Mao’s small but growing
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. From 1928 to 1934 he helped to enlarge the communist-controlled territory in
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province and defended it against repeated attacks by the Nationalists. In 1932 he was promoted to corps commander. When the communists were finally driven from their Jiangxi base in 1934 by the Nationalists, Lin’s First Army Corps formed the vanguard of the epic retreat known as the
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, which a year later brought them to
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in the northern province of
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, where they were able to regroup. By then the 28-year-old Lin was already a legendary figure with a reputation of never having lost a battle. In Shaanxi he became the president of the Red Army Academy and was among the handful of commanders who ranked just below the important military leaders
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and
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.

In 1937 the bitter civil war between the Nationalists and the communists ended temporarily as the two sides formed a united front against the common foe,
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. In September 1937, just after the outbreak of war, Lin Biao, in command of one of the Red Army’s three divisions, scored an important early victory over the Japanese invaders. He was wounded the following spring and retired from the field for the rest of the war. When his wound did not heal, he went to the Soviet Union for medical treatment and stayed three years. After his return to China in 1942, he served briefly as a member of the communist
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team with the Nationalists. In 1943 he resumed the presidency of the Military and Political Academy at Yan’an. As the war with Japan neared its end in 1945, he was elected for the first time to the CCP’s 44-member
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.

When
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ended, the civil war in China resumed. Returning to the field once more, Lin went to
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(Northeast China), as commander of what later became the Fourth Field Army. In a brilliant display of Maoist strategy, he first abandoned the cities of Manchuria to the Nationalists and concentrated instead on securing the support of the peasants in the countryside. Using
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, he then patiently and methodically whittled away at his numerically superior enemy. Gradually, he isolated the Nationalists in the cities and eventually forced garrison after garrison to surrender. By the end of 1948, his army, which had originally numbered 100,000, had grown to 800,000, and he had captured all of Manchuria. Lin’s victory in Manchuria ensured the rapid collapse of Chiang Kai-shek’s Nationalists in the rest of China. His own forces, moving south, captured
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in January 1949, Wuhan in May, and Guangzhou in October.
 
Last edited:

ansy1968

Brigadier
Registered Member
Well in my book Lin biao is the best general of Chinese army ever. He only lost one battle in his career Out of 3 deciding campaign to rout Kuomintang army He lead 2 of them. He is dubbed the Napoleon of China As a child I avidly read his exploit. His mystery death is still an enigma . I think the PLA rehabilitate his position as the one of the 8 marshall of Chinese army. He basically won North China for the communist before sweeping south in Huahai campaign
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View attachment 79643

There are 2 books on his campaign available with Amazon
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Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

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Lin Biao,
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Lin Piao, original name Lin Yurong, (born Dec. 5, 1907, Huanggang,
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
province, China—died Sept. 13, 1971?, Mongolia?), Chinese military leader who, as a field commander of the Red Army, contributed to the communists’ 22-year struggle for power and held many high government and party posts. He played a prominent role in the first several years of the
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
(1966–76), but in 1971 he allegedly sought to remove Chinese leader
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
and seize power; his plot was discovered, and he died under obscure circumstances.

Early life and military career​

Lin Biao was born of a modest landholding family in Hubei province in central
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
. He received his
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
in the village school, then entered middle school in Wuchang, the provincial capital, in 1921. While in middle school, he was deeply affected by the social and cultural upheaval then taking place in his
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
. He soon became interested in socialism and
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
, and in 1923 he joined the Socialist Youth League.

In 1925 Lin Biao went south to
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
(Canton) to enroll in the Whampoa (Huangpu) Academy and there began both his military career and his membership in the
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
(CCP). China at this time suffered from the twin evils of warlordism and imperialism (i.e., internal disunity and foreign encroachment). In order to fight the warlords and curb the imperialists, the
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
, led by
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
until his death in March 1925, had secured the assistance of the
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
and the cooperation of the CCP and were then preparing a military expedition from their base in Guangzhou. The
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
, headed by Sun’s successor,
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
(Jiang Jieshi), was to train the officers for the revolutionary army. Lin had been at the academy less than a year when Chiang launched the
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
in July 1926. Nevertheless, despite the
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
of his formal training, Lin quickly demonstrated his military prowess. A few months later, when the expedition reached the
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
(Chang Jiang) in central China, he had risen from deputy platoon leader to battalion commander. But, when Chiang then turned savagely against his communist allies in 1927, Lin forsook his mentor and fled with the communists.


In
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
1927 Lin took part in the Nanchang Uprising led by
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
and other communist leaders. In the spring of 1928, Lin joined Mao Zedong in the hills of south-central China and established himself at once as one of the ablest and most active commanders in Mao’s small but growing
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
. From 1928 to 1934 he helped to enlarge the communist-controlled territory in
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
province and defended it against repeated attacks by the Nationalists. In 1932 he was promoted to corps commander. When the communists were finally driven from their Jiangxi base in 1934 by the Nationalists, Lin’s First Army Corps formed the vanguard of the epic retreat known as the
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
, which a year later brought them to
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
in the northern province of
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
, where they were able to regroup. By then the 28-year-old Lin was already a legendary figure with a reputation of never having lost a battle. In Shaanxi he became the president of the Red Army Academy and was among the handful of commanders who ranked just below the important military leaders
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
and
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
.

In 1937 the bitter civil war between the Nationalists and the communists ended temporarily as the two sides formed a united front against the common foe,
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
. In September 1937, just after the outbreak of war, Lin Biao, in command of one of the Red Army’s three divisions, scored an important early victory over the Japanese invaders. He was wounded the following spring and retired from the field for the rest of the war. When his wound did not heal, he went to the Soviet Union for medical treatment and stayed three years. After his return to China in 1942, he served briefly as a member of the communist
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
team with the Nationalists. In 1943 he resumed the presidency of the Military and Political Academy at Yan’an. As the war with Japan neared its end in 1945, he was elected for the first time to the CCP’s 44-member
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
.

When
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
ended, the civil war in China resumed. Returning to the field once more, Lin went to
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
(Northeast China), as commander of what later became the Fourth Field Army. In a brilliant display of Maoist strategy, he first abandoned the cities of Manchuria to the Nationalists and concentrated instead on securing the support of the peasants in the countryside. Using
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
, he then patiently and methodically whittled away at his numerically superior enemy. Gradually, he isolated the Nationalists in the cities and eventually forced garrison after garrison to surrender. By the end of 1948, his army, which had originally numbered 100,000, had grown to 800,000, and he had captured all of Manchuria. Lin’s victory in Manchuria ensured the rapid collapse of Chiang Kai-shek’s Nationalists in the rest of China. His own forces, moving south, captured
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in January 1949, Wuhan in May, and Guangzhou in October.
@Hendrik_2000 bro for me its Liu Bocheng and Su Yu , two commanders that participate in Hua Hai campaign.
 

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
@Hendrik_2000 bro for me its Liu Bocheng and Su Yu , two commanders that participate in Hua Hai campaign.
Yes both of them are good general but without winning North China the communist has no chance of winning the civil war . He Who hold north China controlled the rest of China. It has been like that thru history. Actually Mao want Lin Biao to command the volunteer army in Korea but he is sick then Mao want Su Yu to lead but again he is sick
 

zxy_bc

Junior Member
Registered Member
Lin is a very seasoned general and excellent tactician. But during the early stages of the civil war, he had the problem of not doing very well under extreme disadvantages and pressure. (Characteristic that allows good generals to become Julius Ceasar)

Of course Lin's concern or lack of confidence were somewhat well-founded at the time, as he was facing the best equipped and trained KMT formations. After the fourth battle of Siping, he was able to become more active in his strategies in the region. Yet he still faced the famous rebuke from Mao himself when Lin refused to follow the CMC's order to attack Jinzhou. (he considered the order to be tactically flawed as it would put his corps under the threat of being cut off from their supply line) He was able to follow through the CMC's order after receiving Mao's telegram of "furious disapproval". (Later it was proven that CMC's decision had strategically accelerated the winning progress of the PLA)

Almost all of the generals and commanders commanding the various field armies were exceptional in their capabilities imo, just like Napoleon's marshals.
 
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