The World's 4th, 4.5 & 5th Generation Fighters

Re: The World's 4th,4.5 & 5th Generation Fighters

FarkTypeSoldier said:

Together with J-20s, J-16, DF21D anti-ship missile and the still mysterious 4th gen heavy bomber rumoured to be H8 or H9, PLAAF could well be the force to be reckon with for the next 10 years or so. From these situations, if budget permits PLAAF could also come up with a few more stealth aircraft projects.

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According to what I have searched, J-16 is still a myth. So, please do say as it is already there.

Re: J-20... The New Generation Fighter II

FarkTypeSoldier said:

This actually has given the US a chance to sell their F-35s to Japan but in fact the Japanese want F-22s due to its proven operational status. Selling F-35s to Japan is unstablising the Japanese economic as each F-35 costs as much as US$100million, so US proposed 40x F-35 is US$4000million, which is roughly Japanese Yen 329900. See the amount? Astronomical...

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This would also be a reason for the Japanese to start their own stealth program. The F-35 are just too expensive. I do not actually think that the Japanese would be too interested in getting 40 of the F-35, especially with their current economic... or they could try to get the F-35 with their current foreign reserve.

Either way, seeing that the US are only interested in selling them something that they might not want, and the F-22 are out of reach, will most certainly force the Japanese to develope their own version. Might not be as good as the F-22 or F-35, but it was an aircraft designed and manufactured by themselves.

Another possible outcome would be the Japanese getting license to build the F-35 fighters, and this would most certainly create job opportunity to her people, plus not all the money spent will flow out of Japan.

Re: J-20... The New Generation Fighter II

rhino123 said:

This would also be a reason for the Japanese to start their own stealth program. The F-35 are just too expensive. I do not actually think that the Japanese would be too interested in getting 40 of the F-35, especially with their current economic... or they could try to get the F-35 with their current foreign reserve.

Either way, seeing that the US are only interested in selling them something that they might not want, and the F-22 are out of reach, will most certainly force the Japanese to develope their own version. Might not be as good as the F-22 or F-35, but it was an aircraft designed and manufactured by themselves.

Another possible outcome would be the Japanese getting license to build the F-35 fighters, and this would most certainly create job opportunity to her people, plus not all the money spent will flow out of Japan.

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License built F-35s for Japan is an interesting idea... but I can't imagine developing an indigenous stealth fighter would sit very well with politicians -- F-35s would be seen as the far safer option, and would arrive far sooner in their inventory as well.

Re: The World's 4th,4.5 & 5th Generation Fighters

i think US might give some work to JAPAN but license production of F-35 is a bit much ? Wont this require handing over software codes etc as well?. UK is much closer to USA than Japan and even they had to jump through loops to get access to them (or at least a promise that they would have access to them )?

Re: J-20... The New Generation Fighter II

rhino123 said:

This would also be a reason for the Japanese to start their own stealth program. The F-35 are just too expensive. I do not actually think that the Japanese would be too interested in getting 40 of the F-35, especially with their current economic... or they could try to get the F-35 with their current foreign reserve.

Either way, seeing that the US are only interested in selling them something that they might not want, and the F-22 are out of reach, will most certainly force the Japanese to develope their own version. Might not be as good as the F-22 or F-35, but it was an aircraft designed and manufactured by themselves.

Another possible outcome would be the Japanese getting license to build the F-35 fighters, and this would most certainly create job opportunity to her people, plus not all the money spent will flow out of Japan.

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I wouldn't too optimistic. Last time they try to built home grown Fighter F2, they end up with mediocre fighter costing almost twice as the original F16. With high cost and small production run it will bankrupt them to developed their own stealth fighter

With debt load of twice the GDP can they afford to take more debt?. Today they were downgraded by S&P as AA-

Re: J-20... The New Generation Fighter II

FarkTypeSoldier said:

This actually has given the US a chance to sell their F-35s to Japan but in fact the Japanese want F-22s due to its proven operational status. Selling F-35s to Japan is unstablising the Japanese economic as each F-35 costs as much as US$100million, so US proposed 40x F-35 is US$4000million, which is roughly Japanese Yen 329900*. See the amount? Astronomical...

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*Sorry the old post, it should be Japanese Yen 329900 million

Re: The World's 4th,4.5 & 5th Generation Fighters

mkhan said:

i think US might give some work to JAPAN but license production of F-35 is a bit much ? Wont this require handing over software codes etc as well?. UK is much closer to USA than Japan and even they had to jump through loops to get access to them (or at least a promise that they would have access to them )?

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We got to keep in 'mind' that not every manufacturer would give 100% of the data or technology to another third party. Although I can't back this up, but I feel even if US approves the sales of F-35s, they might hold back some data so that any buyers won't be getting a 100% F-35 but only an 80% F-35, while buyer is still buying at the US$100million price. Reason is well aware of spy agents from any 'imaginary hostile' country might be able to get hold of vital data, so it is still safe to sell 80% F-35 than a 100% one.

This is just my personal view.

Re: J-20... The New Generation Fighter II

Hendrik_2000 said:

With debt load of twice the GDP can they afford to take more debt?. Today they were downgraded by S&P as AA-

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Hi, what is S&P. Who downgraded?

Its a credit rating agency. one of the few western ones and it downgraded the credit rating of Japanese bonds if i recall correctly. What most people seem to have not realized, is that the downgraded rating now corresponds to the rating assigned to japan by the newly formed Chinese rating agency (when it first downgraded japan, everyone made fun of it and most western sources said it was based on political reasoning not economical). Turns out Chinese were right after all.

Sorry for the off topic post.

Re: The World's 4th,4.5 & 5th Generation Fighters

FarkTypeSoldier said:

We got to keep in 'mind' that not every manufacturer would give 100% of the data or technology to another third party. Although I can't back this up, but I feel even if US approves the sales of F-35s, they might hold back some data so that any buyers won't be getting a 100% F-35 but only an 80% F-35, while buyer is still buying at the US$100million price. Reason is well aware of spy agents from any 'imaginary hostile' country might be able to get hold of vital data, so it is still safe to sell 80% F-35 than a 100% one.

This is just my personal view.

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Hell, the US military can't even get their hands on all the data for it's weapons. The manufacturers claim major design features are "proprietary" and so far the DoD hasn't tried to press the issue in court. For the most part, the DoD is a slave to the manufacturers when it comes time to overhaul or repair their aircraft because the manufacturers hold all the data rights and ask hundreds of millions of dollars to sell the data rights and level three drawings to the DoD. Without these the DoD cannot farm overhaul work out to the military depots where the work can usually be accomplished for lest cost than using the OEM.
The data rights issue is a major complaint in the now famous Ashton Carter memo from late last year.