The Snowden Affair

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It's called controlling the narrative. The Obama administration is only trying to do damage control to the American people assuring that no laws were broken and Americans are not being outright spied upon without due cause. Yeah what about the rest of the world? It essentially says they're spying on everyone else in the world without restrictions. Which brings up if they believe that's okay, then what are they complaining about of what they have been accusing China? This basically gives the okay for every other country to do it and to especially the US.

I was watching the morning news round table shows and one person said Snowden revealing the US has been hacking China for years was out to hurt the US. What hurt the US is pointing the accusatory finger at China and making it out that it's only a one-way street and the US doesn't do such things. That means China knew all along the US was a liar after being publicly vilified. When the US tries to punish China for something they do themselves, you think China would be cooperative in the future knowing they're dealing with a liar? Beijing already knows the US is a liar. Most Americans I hear the reason why they hate China is because they believe the Chinese are lied to and taught to hate Americans. Well China can use that same logic against the US.

What the critics of Snowden don't really like is not that he hurt the US but he didn't help perpetuate the lie. The Superman movie Man of Steel just came out and some critics have come out angry at the internationalization of Superman when he's America's hero. Well wasn't Superman for truth, justice, and the American way? You can knock the first one out because this scandal shows lies are being protected. Which automatically knocks the second one out because if you lie there can't be justice. So the only thing left is the American way. Now the excuses for hacking into China fall in line that everyone does it. Maybe they should've acknowledged that from the very beginning instead of saying the US doesn't do such things. The spin is Americans are not outraged at even the possibility that they themselves are being spied upon by their own government. If that's the case and if the US acknowledged they spy and hack other countries including China then maybe Snowden would still be someone no one ever heard of working in his cubicle in Hawaii right now. Who would Superman protect? The one that revealed the truth or the one that lied?

very interesting take my friend. You brought up a nice moral dilemma, truth and justice. Either said, those hypocrites will keep on saying stuff and mess around with their own values just to try and bend logic in their favor, and try all sorts of blame the victim and fallacious stuffs to defend US. But the matter of truth is, their government has disgraced.
 
This affair is a huge faux pas for Washington and Obama, the leader of the world's only superpower. Predictably, the media, being dominated by the west, have not touched anything on this aspect.

If it was China that made the flub, western journalists would have a hell of a time shredding China's reputation, using phrases such as "huge embarrassment", "red-faced", "a country that values face", "major gaffe", etc.

And racism and all the uglies will come pouring out like the Niagara Falls. Those people always just can't wait to take their chance and bukkake China, as do the journalists who always pick on China and wet dream all day in hopes of a news event happening which allows them to do just that. This time it's going to be quite entertaining.
 

mr.bean

Junior Member
well dick cheney did the honours and fired the first shot at china then john McCain followed with the second shot. I was expecting Hillary Clinton to follow suite since she has presidential ambitions and doing some healthy anti china bashing is always good for your political resume, but too bad snowden has left Chinese soil now she's too late!
 
More news emerged about Snowden's flight...though the US did voided his passport following the announcement of the extradition request, apparently those from Wikileaks managed to obtain Ecuador-issued refugee status travel documents for him. That said, he did travel with "valid documents"; and since HK government gave the US some red-tape treatment, Snowden was still principally a free man when he boarded the Aeroflot SU213 flight to Moscow.

Now, the following leg of the flight will be an interesting one...it's hard to get a commercial flight to his destination without going through US airspace, so what'd stop the US from scrambling a flight of F-16s to escort the civilian jet down to a US base?

In the next few days the HK government will get a lot of heat from all sides, critics already accusing CY Leung for not doing enough to help Snowden, but seriously what more could HK government do? The most they could do in this case is not to have Snowden being gift-wrapped to the US Consulate, and stalling US extradition request just long enough for him to jump ship...from the beginning HK ain't, can't and won't be the last stop, or safe haven for Snowden, at most HK can buy him some time to catch a breather and to plan for the next few steps.



If CIA and NSA from now on hire new blood exclusively from those who never left the Bible Belt, they might be able to find those who are politically agreeable recruits, but in terms of competency is another matter. Besides, "liberatarian" & "social activism" philosophies originated largely from the US anyway, or at least the US media promote them heavily overseas, and in this rat arse economy, the displeased youth would easily find accord with those ideology.

Totally agreed. I personally think HK government had proven themselves for the first time in a long time. In fact, the US government got played by the HKSAR government this time, I'd say, and it's something I actually smile about when I think about it when I'm on my way to work today.

HKSAR government maintained a strictly neutral stance from the surface, stating both sides of the argument and options the whole time. Meanwhile, HKPF came out to reiterate and broadcast HK's rule of law, neutrality, legal power, and show of force of HKPF's jurisdictions within the territory. All the public statements demonstrated seemed to be directed explicitly towards the US.

However of course when US is impatient enough to make demands, they forgot one thing. They had been spying on us the whole time, and now they are coming to us asking for a favor? Do they really expect that HK will pretend like nothing happened and serve them like the Philippines do? HK pulling this trick off is pretty much the most embarrassing and insulting thing towards the US yet safe-proof enough not to actually directly offend them. Of course pulling this obstacle course wall in front of US by the means of "law and procedures" shuts the US down by throwing HK's law in their face LOL, while letting and secretly telling Snowden to get outta here while they have the chance. This move will frustrate the US, but the same time they have nothing can they actually protest about because HK is just acting by the book, and wont circumvent for them(won't circumvent in order to maintain HK's rule of law in integrity). It may affect HK-US relations, but this is also something the US can't blame HK for. At the same time, HK was able to demonstrate its autonomy from the surface, display HK's strict emphasis of rule of law to the international community, decisions made free from interference, act without succumb to pressure to the US, while sending this guy away without compromise. In a sense, I even feel this time HK's actions demonstrated HK's way of doing things and style of smartness and cunning when dealing with office politics. By This time HK totally outsmarted the US government.
 
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MwRYum

Major
However of course when US is impatient enough to make demands, they forgot one thing. They had been spying on us the whole time, and now they are coming to us asking for a favor? Do they really expect that HK will pretend like nothing happened and serve them like the Philippines do?

If you're the likes of Dick Chaney or John McCain, or in the Tea Party, you'd expect Snowden being gift-wrapped and delivered to Gitmo last week, and everyone in the world should do what Uncle Sam "asked" most ricky-tick, if not service with a smile...

While HKSAR government did a good job on this one, most of the idiotic and ignorant masses won't be the wiser and instead believe the con men aka pan-democratic politicians and their claim that HKSAR government only did what Beijing told. Y'know, the HKPF should let rip those LRADs they bought last year against those morons, the shocks should cure their stupidity.
 

broadsword

Brigadier
well dick cheney did the honours and fired the first shot at china then john McCain followed with the second shot. I was expecting Hillary Clinton to follow suite since she has presidential ambitions and doing some healthy anti china bashing is always good for your political resume, but too bad snowden has left Chinese soil now she's too late!

Face plants, big time.
 

broadsword

Brigadier
UPDATE 1-White House expects Russian government to look at options to expel Snowden



Mon Jun 24, 2013 12:42am EDT

(Adds details and comment from senior administration official)

(Reuters) - The White House on Monday said it expects the Russian government to "look at all options available" to expel former government contractor Edward Snowden back to the United States to face espionage charges.

The White House National Security Council spokeswoman Caitlin Hayden said the United States also registered strong objections to authorities in Hong Kong and China through diplomatic channels at the decision to let Snowden flee.

And "noted that such behavior is detrimental to U.S.-Hong Kong and U.S.-China bilateral relations," Hayden said.

President Barack Obama met earlier this month with Chinese President Xi Jinping in California and stressed the need for cooperation on cybersecurity problems. Just last week, Obama held talks in Northern Ireland with Russian President Vladimir Putin on the fringes of a Group of Eight summit.

Hayden said that given the intensified cooperation between the United States and Russia after the Boston Marathon bombings in April and a history of working together on law enforcement matters, the United States wanted Moscow to help on the Snowden case.

"We expect the Russian government to look at all options available to expel Mr. Snowden back to the U.S. to face justice for the crimes with which he is charged," Hayden said.

Snowden landed in Moscow on Sunday and is believed to be seeking asylum in Ecuador.

A senior administration official said Snowden's claim that he leaked details of the National Security Agency's secret surveillance programs to protect democracy and individual rights is "belied by the protectors he has potentially chosen: China, Russia, Cuba, Venezuela and Ecuador."

"His failure to criticize these regimes suggests that his true motive throughout has been to injure the national security of the U.S., not to advance Internet freedom and free speech," the official said.

U.S. authorities have charged Snowden with theft of federal government property, unauthorized communication of national defense information and willful communication of classified communications intelligence to an unauthorized person, with the latter two charges falling under the U.S. Espionage Act.

Snowden's revelations have become a major problem for Obama, who has found his domestic and international policy agenda sidelined as he scrambles to deflect accusations that U.S. surveillance practices violate privacy protections and civil rights. The president has said the measures were necessary to thwart attacks on the United States. (Reporting by Steve Holland; Editing by Stacey Joyce)

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Reuters published this article but did not open it for discussion and says discussion is closed, "Comments (0)".

Over at CNN, whenever my comments contained the word "Obama", the replies I got for my posts were "...awaiting moderation". But without "Obama", my posts got through without issues.
 

SampanViking

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I would recommend Peter Lee's article from last week, which looks at the experiences of three very senior ex members of the NSA who went through official channels to Whistleblow illegal NSA activities

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Underpinning all of this however and its utterly incredible downplaying in the Western Media, is that we now see exposed, officially sanctioned criminality on a scale and magnitude that dwarfs previous scandals such as Watergate. The people responsible for this programme should be in Prison without their feet touching the ground. Instead they are free and trying to arrest the lead witnesses for the prosecution.
 

MwRYum

Major
I would recommend Peter Lee's article from last week, which looks at the experiences of three very senior ex members of the NSA who went through official channels to Whistleblow illegal NSA activities

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


Underpinning all of this however and its utterly incredible downplaying in the Western Media, is that we now see exposed, officially sanctioned criminality on a scale and magnitude that dwarfs previous scandals such as Watergate. The people responsible for this programme should be in Prison without their feet touching the ground. Instead they are free and trying to arrest the lead witnesses for the prosecution.

That's because in this digital age,
* you can do so much more for less (relatively), that means, in this "nodes and nexus" structure of digital communication network, as long the government can afford the processing power and storage capacity, you can snoop and store mountain loads of data;
* with the internet built upon the network first laid down by the US DoD, most internet data route through the US, so snooping in the US means snooping the world - unless, of course, you're working on a sealed network;
* with the right man sitting at the right chair, the so-called judicial oversight will be nothing more than rubber stamp.

This whole affair's biggest impact isn't its extent and scale - face it, we always suspicious of being watched, with the world this "wired" any self respecting power would do their damn best to stay in the game - but that now it blew open, the US can no longer shamelessly finger pointing others for doing what the US has been doing all along.

So I won't be, unlike those idiots protesting 2 weekends ago, decrying the US for snooping or demand it to cease - in the same logic of objecting the closure of Gitmo or end of PATRIOT Act, Americans will in the end support the US government of snooping the world's cyberspace, even if that means their Facebook rantings or porn site surfing records -along with their bank records and phone records - will be forever archived in a NSA digital archive somewhere.

If you don't want to be snooped in this day and age, your only choice is to live with no computer and phones, no handheld devices, out in the middle of nowhere and keep track of the orbiting timetable of satellites. Privacy is something we all sacrifice for the convenience and comfort in the digital, web2.0 age.
 
If you're the likes of Dick Chaney or John McCain, or in the Tea Party, you'd expect Snowden being gift-wrapped and delivered to Gitmo last week, and everyone in the world should do what Uncle Sam "asked" most ricky-tick, if not service with a smile...

While HKSAR government did a good job on this one, most of the idiotic and ignorant masses won't be the wiser and instead believe the con men aka pan-democratic politicians and their claim that HKSAR government only did what Beijing told. Y'know, the HKPF should let rip those LRADs they bought last year against those morons, the shocks should cure their stupidity.

That's why I ignore them completely. People who knew nothing are usually the loudest.
 
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